Wind Energy

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Welcome to Uptown Chats, a podcast where we share stories about environmental justice by and for everyday people. I'm your co host, Lonnie. [00:00:24] Speaker C: And I'm your other co host, Jaron. [00:00:26] Speaker B: And today we're talking about everyone's second favorite renewable energy source, wind energy. Or at least I think it's everyone's second favorite because everyone seems to talk way more about solar. [00:00:38] Speaker C: I don't know about that, Lonnie. Some people are big fans of wind energy. Get it? [00:00:46] Speaker B: Okay. All right, all right. Anyway, moving on from dad jokes. In 2023, wind energy was actually the largest source of renewable energy in the United states at about 10% of total energy production. For a little bit of context, solar and hydropower production were about 4% and 6%, respectively. [00:01:06] Speaker C: That's actually way more than I expected. I thought for sure solar energy would be the highest. But as we'll get into during our interview today, there's a lot of wind energy already installed across the U.S. especially in some of the central states and the Midwest and other places. [00:01:21] Speaker B: That's right. But our focus today is on New York and specifically how New York is scaling up wind energy and its quest to become a wind energy hub and how workforce development is playing a role in that. But before we get too far, Jaron, can you share we act's mission? [00:01:36] Speaker C: I sure can. We act's mission is to build healthy communities by ensuring that people of color and or low income residents participate meaningfully in the creation of sound and fair environmental health and protection policies and practices. [00:01:49] Speaker B: Thank you. With today's topic being wind energy, we'll be joined by Robert Zandi and Alexander Seki from City University of New York, or cuny, who have both worked in the renewable energy space for many years and will tell us about some exciting job training and workforce development programs that are going on in New York. [00:02:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Some of you may have heard about New York's goal of becoming a wind energy hub specifically for offshore wind. According to NYSERDA, the state is well on the way to developing 9,000 megawatts of offshore wind energy by 2035, which is enough to power up to 6 million homes, which is a lot of energy. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Yes, that is a lot of energy. But in order to make that happen, New York is also going to need a lot more people to do the work. Which is where workforce development programs like the ones Robert and Alexander will be talking about come into play. [00:02:35] Speaker C: Exactly. And because this episode is part of our Right Direction miniseries, I think it's important to emphasize the role of workforce Development in a just transition. For folks who listened to the first episode in the miniseries with Shalonda Baker, which if you haven't, you should go back and listen to, we'll remember that creating jobs and opportunities in clean energy for folks who have been negatively impacted by fossil fuel infrastructure is an important part of ensuring a just transition and making that a reality. [00:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely check out that episode if you haven't listened to it already. But with that said, let's go ahead and jump into our interview. [00:03:10] Speaker C: Let's go. [00:03:19] Speaker D: Well, thank you so much, both of you for joining us for this episode. It's part of our Right Direction miniseries, unpacking this topic of wind energy here in New York State and some of the workforce components that go into that. But before we get into the fun stuff, some of the questions that we have for you both, I just want to ask you both to just quickly introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about your role. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Sure. I'll leave. [00:03:41] Speaker E: Sure. [00:03:42] Speaker A: My name is Alex Secchi. I'm associate director for green jobs, construction and transportation at LaGuardia Community College. Been in workforce development for 10 plus years doing a lot of hands on courses from culinary to technology comptia A, also carpentry, electric plumbing, H Vac, and that's how I kind of transition over to, to LaGuardia about a year and a half ago to head up their construction and green jobs training programs. [00:04:14] Speaker E: Nice. My name is Robert Zandi. I'm the associate director of Renewable energy programs at Kingsborough Community College. I'm also the lead director of the CUNY Offshore Wind Advisory Network, which is a consortium of four CUNY schools. Been doing renewable energy work for about 20 years now in a variety of fields from habitat restoration to community outreach, curriculum development. Currently working on a variety of projects in renewable energy and sustainable technology. [00:04:42] Speaker D: So we've got two perfect people on today to talk about this topic. So thank you both for being with us. One of the questions that might be on people's minds, and I know it was on my mind as we were planning out this episode and thinking about some of the questions that we wanted to ask you, is there's been kind of different news over the last couple of years about what is going on with wind energy in New York. I think some people saw a lot of momentum happening kind of with big wind energy hubs starting to be announced for the state and then changes in federal administration make people uncertain about, you know, some, some of the continuation of some of those projects. But just thinking about, you know, what's going on in New York and kind of at a high level. From both of your perspectives, what is the status of wind energy in New York? What does it look like? [00:05:25] Speaker A: Well, you know, let's take it pre this current administration and then we'll go into current events. You know, regarding there are a lot of wind farm projects going up around the whole east coast, not to mention Long Island. It's a number of energy companies that are getting into this business. You know, the status fully behind it has always been the issues with, you know, actually making the transition have been around what any other manufacturing company has, has dealt with in the past few years. Delays in the, you know, know, supplies. The supply chain has got screwed up because of COVID and you know, there are just inevitable delays and postponements. Postponements. As a result of that. [00:06:12] Speaker E: There's a lot happening around a variety of renewable energy sustainable technology initiatives, programs and trainings In New York. NYSERDA and the New York City Economic Development Corporation have worked with the mayor and the state to establish goals for 2035, 2040 to transition away from fossil fuels and inefficient appliances. There's a variety of initiatives, but NYSERDA is basically in charge of several offshore wind projects for New York State. So up until the new administration, there were several offshore wind projects that had been permitted. The ocean areas in which they lease had been awarded. Everything was good to go. There was a little bit of a setback, as Alex mentioned, due to the supply chain toward the end of last year in which one of the companies backed out and that opened up another bidding round for that lease to be secured. You know, NYSERDA and the EDC are extremely committed to New York's climate goals and energy inefficiency as well as supplying jobs and training programs to supply the workforce to do that work. And more recently, everybody's concerned with the new administration coming in. Obviously meetings earlier this year with NYSERDA and various other organizations have confirmed that New York is very solid and committed to seeing through these initiatives and projects, especially with offshore wind as well as the rest of the different types of renewable energy sustainable technology. Recently though, something happened that was extremely interesting. In which was it? The Secretary of the Interior stated that one of the projects, Empire Wynne, had to halt all operations even though they're permitted and they have their lease. And they've invested billions of dollars and done a bunch of work out there in Long island already. Yeah, they said they had to stop everything. So it's a big concern. [00:08:15] Speaker A: We, Robert and I meet With a lot of stakeholders involved in this. We attend a lot of summits, symposiums, you know, events around that. We meet with private employers who are involved in all stages of the construction of these wind farms. And just for your audience to kind of visualize, you know, there's been talk like you can see the wind farms from, from the beach and they're not that close. Like for the, I guess on an extremely clear day, you can see the wind farms out in the distance, but we're talking like 30 miles out in the ocean. Each project is kind of different and essentially the state, Right. Allows certain parcels of the ocean floor. Right. To be bid on, as Robert was saying, and get the permits to start construction. There were delays on that side because some of the companies who were bidding didn't meet the standards that NYSERDA was looking for. So that kind of pushed things back. And then, yeah, again, supply chain that pushed things back. But, you know, each of these wind farms are owned and operated by different companies and they are going to have hundreds of these wind towers out in the ocean, ideally. It's a long way of saying that, meeting with all these stakeholders. Surprisingly, I've been surprised surprisingly far that they are not overly concerned. A lot of these projects have. The funding is already moving. You know, it's really hard to stop the momentum of a project of these kind of projects because they've been planned for, for years now. Right. So for the foreseeable future, despite what happened with Empire, when even people in the private sector are not confident, but they're going along and doing the work, as are we, what may happen in two years, we don't know because future projects will be impacted by the current administration. But for now, it seems like things are moving ahead. [00:10:30] Speaker E: Yeah, everybody involved, all the stakeholders, nyserda, like I was saying, they're deeply committed to these initiatives and projects. And so basically, NYSERDA currently has several wind farm projects that have been permitted and the areas have been leased. And the aim is to develop 4,300 megawatts, which is nearly half of the state's goal for 9,000 megawatts by 2030. And so, for example, that project Empire Window, which got halted, has already done a bunch of work. They have, I believe, 132 megawatts already in operation, I want to say, which is enough to power 70,000 homes. So, you know, as well, all of the workforce training organizations and institutions, we're not stopping anything. A lot of the funding is coming through state organizations and institutions like nyserda, edc and so on. You know, we're continuing our training programs. Full steam ahead. [00:11:31] Speaker B: I think this kind of leads in some of the questions you've talked a little bit about this. I mean, political barriers aside, a theme that we've noticed to kind of. And we're talking about renewable energy and kind of the right direction and the place thing that we want to see in our communities. We often hear the, well, Europe has been doing this for X amount of time and all of these things. And that, yes, for decades. And we've been hearing that from solar, about wind, about geothermal heat pumps. It's always come down to that. So when it comes to America and it comes to us, and I know offshore and onshore might have slightly different barriers. What are some of the barriers besides current political climates? What are some of the barriers to scaling up wind energy usage in the. [00:12:13] Speaker E: US I think definitely on top of that list I can mention supply chain is an issue. The infrastructure and the manufacturing facilities prior to this whole push for offshore wind are pretty minimal in the United States. So just developing the infrastructure and the facilities to provide the materials and supplies and parts needed, that's been one challenge. You know, you could always buy something from overseas, but it's preferred to be manufacturing those things here. Here locally also, a big thing has been the workforce. There's been a bunch of reports prior to all of this work and these plans being put in motion for offshore wind, showing that there's a giant workforce gap, meaning that basically there's not enough people to go do those work, those jobs, because there are a lot of people in adjacent industries who don't necessarily want to leave their industry. So a big issue that was identified was just the people to actually go do the work. So there's been a tremendous amount of investment from a variety of institutions. I have to, you know, salutations to NYSERDA for their tremendous investments in workforce development, supply chain. Actually, Nyserda, I believe, $700 million of investment in new offshore wind supply chain investments, as well as $77 million in offshore wind workforce training. That's huge. [00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, let's talk hypothetical, right? If we take out the current politics and we take out Covid, New York State really should be commended for having a great forward plan. You know, there's the Blue Highway. I don't know if you have heard of this initiative. So it's all part of. Right. New York City's net zero carbon goal, right. In 2050. The plan, just in terms of the wind industry, was to bring the actual Wind turbine manufacturing to upstate New York and then to cut down on trucking these supplies into Long Island, New York City. They're going to use the Hudson River, Right. As it was used in olden days. Right. Logging times, to bring parts down to a staging point in Coimans, New York. And then from there to. I don't know if you're familiar, the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal is being converted to a wind equipment supplies terminal that's going to be a kind of staging point for bringing the equipment out to be constructed. So really the grand vision was great, but, you know, force majeure things Covid, you know, an unlikely political situation, and here we are not quite on track. [00:15:17] Speaker E: Yeah, I'd also like to follow up on Alex's point just generally about infrastructure, ports and staging facilities and areas. A lot of those places need to be developed because they just simply can't handle the weight of all of that material and supplies and machinery to do that work. So as, as Alex had mentioned, they got the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal, which is in Sunset park. It's a 73 acre site and is being retrofitted by Equinor and the New York City Economic Development Corporation to be an offshore wind staging and assembly hub. But. And there's also other work that's going to be happening there. But yeah, it's, it's. It's a big thing where the places, the people and the supplies need to be developed. [00:16:06] Speaker D: It's actually a perfect segue because I think that's kind of getting at what I wanted to ask you next, which kind of threads a couple of things that you've been talking about together, first of all with the workforce piece, but then also all the different components. It's actually really helpful to hear all the components of the vision, the blue highway and moving pieces and trying to keep so much of the workaround wind energy and offshore wind in New York. Right. That's the vision. And I think maybe that touches on. What I want to ask you is, you know, unpacking the concept of an offshore wind hub. You know, that's the term that we hear kind of thrown, thrown around a lot. And if those different pieces that you touched on, like the workforce piece and the building and also having the energy, you know, kind of installed and, you know, providing energy to New York, if those are all the pieces, if there's other pieces that kind of fit into this vision of making New York an offshore wind hub. And then I guess a little bit of maybe in that answer, how the workforce piece kind of helps Support that and what the role of workforce development is as a part of creating that, you know, that vision of a wind hub, offshore wind hub, whatever that means. [00:17:19] Speaker A: As you can imagine, it's a huge job growth developer. You know, it's not only the wind turbine technician maintenance, right. That needs to happen when the wind farms are up and running. But as you can imagine, the tier one and two construction that's going to go into it involves all different tradespeople from different specialties. And then just imagine a site like the South Brooklyn Marine Terminal. Once it's fully 100% up and running. We're talking trucking jobs, you know, janitorial maintenance of the facilities, office workers, all of these. It's going to be a huge job growth driver. [00:18:02] Speaker E: Yeah. I'd like to point out like, you know something that Alex and I do, we're part of something called the CUNY Offshore Wind Advisory Network. We were fortunate to receive something called the Ecosystem Fund grant and the that has helped us. So I'm from Kingsborough Community College, he's from LaGuardia Community College. We also have teams at College of Staten island and Brooklyn City Tech. So we're all going out into the community to educate and inspire awareness and also opportunity for the local community, especially environmental justice and disadvantaged communities to be aware of all of this work. Coming up to learn about the science, the history, the workforce gaps, the different sectors and plenty of training opportunities available at these Fort CUNY schools and other places which are related jobs for all across offshore wind energy. But a common misconception is that, oh, it's offshore wind energy, it's in the ocean, all the jobs are in the ocean. Actually there's thousands of jobs on the land. Everything, almost anything you can imagine, they got lawyers, they got planners, they got drivers, IT community outreach specialists, teachers and so on and so forth way down the line, administrative, real estate, you name it. There's pretty much a job for almost everybody out there when it comes to offshore wind. And we've identified several areas where there's workforce gaps at our various schools. So we have a variety of training programs that are either directly related to offshore wind or they're co related to offshore wind in which people can learn those skills, go do the work while those jobs are manifesting and get the experience so that when those jobs become available, they're ready to just, you know, plug and play. [00:19:53] Speaker A: Wanted to, yeah, we want to plug the offshore Wind Advisory Network. So if any organization out there, nonprofit, even department DOE schools, we are happy to do an in person Presentation about the wind industry as a whole, the history of wind, you know, kind of pretty basic, you know, elemental presentation. It takes about an hour. So please feel free to reach out to Robert or myself. [00:20:21] Speaker E: Yeah, those are totally free too. So anybody that's interested wants to get this plugged into their organization, institution, community center, whatever, please feel free to reach us. You can just Google bridges to offshore wind. The website will pop up, you can sign up there. [00:20:38] Speaker B: We'll also make sure and include all of that information in the show notes once you send it over as well so that people have access to it. So I think this is a really good segue because you were talking a lot about as you were talking about kind of the workforce development and jobs training. It's interesting to me. I think when we talk about renewable energy, we do talk about this a lot as a way for it to be a just transition for these communities that are disadvantaged communities or low income communities, environmental justice communities, all the different names that we have for them for these communities. Can you talk a little bit more about how that workforce development piece plays a role in that kind of just transition of fossil fuels, but then also making sure that people who have been left behind and hurt the most by are participating in this work. And one thing that you mentioned, Robert, I think you were talking about this was this idea that there's, there's tons of different jobs. Like it's. I think we often think about the just kind of with your hands on the ground in the manufacturing making, you know, actual, you know, windmills and farms and things like that. But I. But there's so many other, there's engineering pieces to it, there's teachers, like you. [00:21:45] Speaker E: Said, there's teachers education. [00:21:46] Speaker B: So can you talk a little bit more expand about the workforce aspect and how it contributes to a just transition? [00:21:52] Speaker E: Definitely. Happy to touch base on that. Thank you for that. So I'm happy to share that a majority of our trainings and programs and offerings are cent that are centered around offshore wind energy or renewable energy at Kingsborough. They're all for EJ and DAC community members. For those people who don't know what an EJ or DAC community is, it's either a disadvantaged community, that community, or an environmental justice community. And as you'd mentioned, a lot of people are negatively impacted by their area that they live in. And usually that traditionally a lot of people who are in impoverished areas, food deserts or areas where there's high traffic or manufacturing everywhere, lots of pollution, tend to be people of color and they tend to be people from lower economic backgrounds and they've been subjected to pollution, noise, poverty. It's systematic over the years. And so something that's really great about this movement with the offshore wind industry is that NYSERDA is making a point to address this and incorporate opportunities, trainings and jobs for people, especially from EJ and DAC community. So for example, Alex and I are both on the NYSERDA Environmental Justice Technical Working Group, which is also a part of several, several organizations are a part of that. So you got nycha, which is public housing in New York, different community based organizations, educational institutions, and we all meet on a regular basis to talk about how to best serve people from the community, how to best get the word out to the EJ community, how to get them the training opportunities, how to get them the jobs and make sure that those things are available. And so in our grant funding for several of our projects such as the Offshore Wind Advisory Network and our Bridges to Offshore Wind seminar, they're intended to be provided for EJ and DAC communities strictly. But we still like, we do that, of course, and we're also open to giving them other places as well. But we have a high priority focus on EJ and DAC zones. And I'm happy to share that a majority, if not all of the offshore wind and renewable energy trainings that are happening at Kingsborough are, you know, funded with the intention to provide these trainings to people from EJ's and Daxos. So that's like welding, deckhand training to work on boats, the Bridges to Renewable Energy presentation, the weatherization, weatherization training, there's a energy and carbon management training. And then so everything at Kingsborough is free too. And the other OWON schools, other cuny, OWON schools also have a variety of training programs that are available as well as supportive services, wraparound services for people from EJ communities. If they're not free, there's scholarships or grant funding available to help supplement the costs. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Yeah, just to add on, the grant we received from NYSERDA to run our first cohort of wind maintenance turbine technicians actually stipulates that all students and trainees must be from a DAC zone. I commend NYSERDA for actively trying to get New Yorkers into these jobs. And I believe, and I may be wrong, but as part of the permitting process they ask these private companies their hiring practices. And I don't know the exact details of it, but they're, you know, they won't give out a permit unless they check some box, you know, where they're actually serving the New York population. [00:25:42] Speaker D: Very cool. I'd like just take a second to process that. You said you all are doing a whole lot of stuff. I think it really speaks to how much of a. Like you said, there's all different kinds of jobs that are going into, you know, creating a wind industry in New York. And I'm curious if you feel like the offshore wind industry has a larger need for that workforce development component than maybe other forms of renewable energy. Or if you feel like it's. If it's comparable or. Or there's unique challenges around that piece of it, given that it. There's a lot of. There's a lot going on, you know, like you said, the manufacturing, the support, all the different pieces. Do you feel like there's a larger workforce development component needed for offshore wind relative to any of the other renewable energy systems? [00:26:35] Speaker A: That's a great question. The training that LaGuardia received funding for is again for wind turb maintenance technicians. Now, that means what it sounds like. Once the wind tower is constructed, then it's going to need maintenance, just like any kind of electrical appliance, right? From time to time to break down, you need to oil it, you need to change this and that so that doesn't require a massive workforce. I think the ratio is about 15 techs can maintain about 100 towers because obviously they're not breaking every day, you know, and then they can do the rounds on their whatever yearly checkup. But in terms of the construction piece and the manufacturing piece, that entails hundreds of jobs, right? And like I said before, that's everything from the office workers, Janitaria, the truck drivers who bring the supplies and parts into the city, or boat captains, I suppose, when the blue highway is up and running. That workforce also needs to be trained, a homegrown construction workforce. Right now, the labor union, various labor unions are contributing to their piece. So iron workers are doing the welding pieces of these wind towers. Steamfitters are doing X and electricians are doing Y, et cetera. That part, you know, is currently not in our scope of work to do training for. But I. I'll just share that we are talking to various entities about the possibility of bringing that kind of skill training to New York residents as well. [00:28:28] Speaker E: There's a world of resources out here. I just encourage people to, you know, seek and you will find it's out there. You just got to look for it. But also, we're happy to be a resource. If you guys would like, please feel free to reach out. We're happy to help and support in any way, shape or form, whether it's a referral or doing our best to get you into one of our programs or just give you some more information or insight. Happy to do so. But in general, just very optimistic about the future. I think, you know, renewable energy as a whole is not going anywhere. We need it. And I say the same thing with, you know, offshore wind. And now's the time to get involved. Like these projects are happening, they're going to continue to happen whether onshore or offshore. And there's lots of great skills to be learned and lots of great jobs to be had. And you can even take these skills to other industries and sectors if you want down the road. But you know, the works there, it's needed. Training programs are there. I think everything's lining up pretty nicely for a green future. [00:29:28] Speaker D: We love to end on a hopeful note. I always like when we find our way there organically. We didn't even have to prompt you to get there. I appreciate the positive energy because, you know, times like these, we need a little bit of that and also the encouragement to take that next step. You know, for folks who are listening, who are interested in our clean energy career or any of these other adjacent careers, now's a great time to take that next step and explore opportunities. So thank you both for joining us. Such a thorough conversation. I feel like I learned a lot. [00:30:02] Speaker C: Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out the next episode in our Right Direction miniseries where we talk with John Furlong from New York League of Conservation Voters or NYLCV about geothermal energy, both how it works and what it might look like here in New York. That episode will drop on June 9th. [00:30:20] Speaker B: If you like this episode, make sure to rate and review the show on whatever platform you listen on. If you have thoughts about the show, we encourage you to reach out to us with your thoughts and [email protected] and. [00:30:30] Speaker C: Check out React on Facebook at react4ej. That's W E a c t F O R E j on Instagram, bluesky and YouTube at react4ej that's W E A C T number 4ej and check out our website react.org for more information about environmental justice. [00:30:49] Speaker B: Until next time. [00:30:50] Speaker E: Bye.