[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to Uptown Chats, a podcast where we share stories about environmental justice by and for everyday people. I'm your co host, Jaron.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: And I'm your other co host, Lonnie.
[00:00:27] Speaker C: And.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: And today we're covering everybody's favorite trash talk.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Well, not that kind of trash talk. We don't want to get too spicy. On this episode, we will actually be talking about actual trash. More specifically, plastic bottles, packaging, and other stuff that usually ends up in either trash or recycling bins.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah, but before we get to the good stuff, Lonnie, can you share we act's mission?
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. We act's mission is to build healthy communities by ensuring that people of color and or low income residents participate meaningfully in the creation of sound and fair and environmental health and protection policies and practices.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Thank you.
So, as we mentioned, our topic today is trash or solid waste as we sometimes call it. And that includes plastic materials, things like packaging, bottles, and a bunch of other stuff. And unfortunately, those materials don't always end up getting recycled or processed in the way that we would like them to or at all for that matter.
So to help us unpack some of the emerging policies in New York that are helping us to handle our plastic and other waste better, we'll actually be joined by Danielle Dukey, who is a member of WEAC's planning committee.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah, Danielle's going to talk to us about two state level bills. The Packaging Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure Act. It's a mouthful, but it's also called prea and then the simple bottle bill. She's also going to give us a rundown on New York State's Drafts Solid Waste Management Plan. And that plan recommends actions for the state to reduce the climate impact of solid waste and provides direction for New Yorkers waste reduction. How do we reuse items, how do we recycle, how to be collecting it, transporting, disposal, all of these things that go into having a waste system.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Absolutely. And we won't get into too much detail here because Danielle did a great job with that for us.
So I say with that, let's just let Danielle do the explaining.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah, let's get into it.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Let's go.
Well, thank you so much for joining us, Danielle. We're super excited to have you on the podcast and to tell us a little bit about what's going on with waste and waste management here in New York State. You're obviously the expert, I think, at least more than me. I actually don't know how much Lonnie is an expert on this topic, but we're glad to have you fill in the details for us. But you know, before we get into some of the trash talk talking about what's going on here in New York State, I just wanted to give you a chance to just introduce yourself and tell us about your role at WE act and just how you kind of got involved in this waste and sanitation work.
[00:03:01] Speaker C: Great. Firstly, I want to say thank you so much for having me. This is an awesome opportunity to talk about waste and garbage. So firstly, my name is Danielle and I have been a volunteering member with WEACT for the last two years.
And I also want to say that I've learned so much and grown so much from the knowledge that I've gained from the organization. So I genuinely appreciate this opportunity.
Aside from that, I am also on the Manhattan Solid Waste Advisory Board, also known as mswab, which is a board of volunteers who help to advance ideas, insights and initiatives to help bring New York City closer to zero waste.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: That's exciting. I feel like that is a great vision for us to be working towards. I know that again, I don't live as much in the policy space as Lonnie does, but just thinking about zero waste vision is always exciting to me to learn more about.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think there's a lot of opportunity for people to learn a little bit more about some of the things that kind of go on behind the scenes, both policy related.
And we'll talk a little bit about, you know, plans that are created throughout the state or even the city. When it comes to waste. I think a lot of people just think I just don't want to see trash. And that is their extent and that's all they want to hear and that's all they want to do. But there's so much more that goes on kind of behind the scenes. And I'm so glad you were able to kind of come and talk to us today about those and fill us in for those details. I don't know nearly as much as Danielle knows about waste, but I do enjoy that and talking about waste and waste policy.
So I always look to her for her knowledge and expertise as well as being a volunteer and on our REACT planning committee. So I guess we can dive right in. I want to put together three different things and I know that's going to feel like a lot, but there's kind of three things happening right now that I think it's important to kind of talk about and talk about them together.
Two of them are bills that are actually in the state legislature right now, which is the Packaging Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure act or prea and then there's also the bottle bill. And on top of those two bills there's also a giraffe solid waste management plan that's happening going on right now. And I know that you have been talking about all three of these things extensively for like the last few weeks, if not a few months talking about some of these things.
[00:05:09] Speaker A: So.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: So I just want you to kind of give a little bit of higher level overview for listeners, like what these things are and kind of how they're connected to each other.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: Sure. So starting with the Packaging Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure act, that is a state bill that would require companies that sell or distribute packaging materials which are mostly made of plastic, to register with a packaging reduction organization to develop a packaging reduction and recycling plan. So this has a couple of implications on the packager level. Firstly, it would reduce plastic packaging over the next 10 years. It would require packaging to be reused or recycled.
It would also require producer fees to cover municipalities cost of waste management and recycling. So this could actually save millions of dollars across cities in New York State. And then most importantly to me, it would prohibit 14 toxic chemicals and materials from packaging that are known to be harmful to human health and the environment. The bigger, better bottle bill would provide for the expansion of the current New York bottle bill by including more types of eligible beverage containers. So it would add a refundable deposit to most containers except for milk and milk alternatives, infant formula and 100% juice containers. But everything else besides that would be included. So even liquor bottles.
This would also increase the refundable deposit fee from $0.05 to $0.10. And it would reduce single use beverage bottles by 25% by 2030. So it would actually reduce a lot of litter and single use in the waste stream.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: I guess my kind of question to you is so with the packaging bill, with Prius, which is the Packaging Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure Act, PREA sounds so much easier, but I just wanna make sure everyone kind of has the full acronym there all the time. We what's kind of like the goal here? I know it's obviously to reduce packaging, but is it to incentivize producers to, to make less things with plastic or what's kind of like some of the more ultimate goal here?
[00:07:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the ultimate goal is to reduce the amount of plastic that's in the waste stream because it kind of falls on the consumer and the municipality to understand what is the best way to dispose of it. But right now they're without it really being regulated. It Kind of a free for all, for all these manufacturers to produce as much plastic, and then the responsibility falls on us. So with. In a perfect world, when this bill gets passed, there would be a recycling and packaging reduction plan so that we don't have to be inundated with this responsibility of how to responsibly dispose of plastic.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Is it possible to kind of like walk through a little bit, just like a normal day in someone's life? Like, if this bill were to pass, like, what would it look like then on. On our end from buying a product, from product being produced, being put on a shelf, to me buying it, to me disposing it, and then the city and municipal. Can you like, kind of walk through, like, what. What the change would look like kind of on the ground?
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think one example could be buying something that would normally come wrapped in, like the plastic vinyl, which is not really recyclable because it's a flimsy plastic.
If we were to remove that out of the waste stream, someone can buy something with cardboard packaging instead of. And, you know, they bring it home, they take the product out, and then the cardboard can easily go into their paper recycling. And then, you know, case closed, they don't have to worry about what to do with plastic because it's not there.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Yeah, see, I think that makes sense from buying a product and having to unpack all those other layers of like, well, now I have to do all this extra work, you know, and I think that it seems like there's a clear benefit for consumers in a really obvious way of like, that's one less thing for us have to do when we're buying products, because add it into the layer of all the things that we have to think about on a given day to put that burden on the consumer as opposed to the producer of a product. You know, that makes a lot of sense.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: And then for the, for the bottle bill, I didn't realize that there were different types of bottles that can and cannot be kind of like returned. You talk about, like, when we go to the. When you see people in the machines and you put in there, get the five cent back. I didn't realize there were certain things that were eligible and certain things that were not. Can you talk a little bit, a little more about that and like, the, the different eligibility and like, what. How that will change and who does that? Who's that impact? Who gets the benefit from. From that kind of lobbying pass.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Yeah. So just to take a step back, there are some containers or cartons where it has the deposit fee and which states are eligible to redeem it. So that's how you know whether you can receive that deposit when you send it to a redemption center. And honestly, this could benefit anyone who puts in the effort to go out and redeem, you know, that money back. So I think especially in this economy where people are really trying to keep as much money as possible, this is a great way to kind of mitigate all of the issues we have around an unstable economy.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: It's like. Yeah, that's actually a really good point because there's a lot of people who do kind of go through and collect these kind of bottles almost as a living or as a source of income. And I was thinking about the guy who comes to our spot, like where my apartment is, and he kind of goes through our actual recycling. I see him all the time and I wave to him and talk to him. Like sometimes there's times where I've had stuff in my hands for my recycling and I like hass it off to him so he can sort through. But you know, he collects a lot too. He'll come there with like a shopping cart and have a lot. I know where he's going somewhere to redeem. So I thinking about people like that who use that as a source of income, it would be very beneficial for them to have a wider range, I'm assuming, of products that they can actually collect and redeem.
[00:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it would also motivate more people to go ahead and start sending their stuff back to be redeemed because right now a lot of people either don't know about it or don't care. They think $0.05 is not enough or not even worthy, but $0.10 could actually move the needle.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: Yeah, especially you think you, you know, added up over the course of an entire bag of recycled bottles, that's essentially doubling the value of that container of bottles.
So that's. That's interesting to hear and I'm kind of curious and then maybe we can transition to talk a little bit about the solid waste management plan. Just like what the. From, you know, your work on trying to help move these bills forward. What's kind of the reception of these two bills from the legislator and just from folks that you've worked with in terms of likelihood of, you know, moving it forward and just maybe other thoughts and concerns that you've heard as you've like been talking to folks about these bills and what the opportunities there are to move it forward.
[00:11:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I think anyone that's for the environment is very much a supporter of these two bills. So, you know, it definitely would remove a lot of unnecessary waste out of the regular garbage stream.
Unfortunately, we have seen some resistance on the legislative side. I hate to address the elephant in the room, but there are a lot of plastic lobbyists who are paying our legislators to not support or pass this bill. So we're kind of up against people with steep pockets that can pay and persuade our legislators to push this bill to the side while all of us are doing this for free because we actually care enough. And it's an uphill battle. But I do feel optimistic with that.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: I think maybe we can pivot and talk a little bit more about that solid waste management plan and maybe the connection there with these other two bills that we've been talking about.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: Sure. So just to level set, the solid waste management plan is the Department of Sanitation Solid Waste management plan for 2026. So it's a plan that will address how New York City's municipal solid waste, also known as trash, will be managed for the next 10 years.
It touches on recycling and organics collection as well as other waste streams. But it also highlights the locations for where our non recyclable waste will be sent and the method in which it will be disposed of, which is through incineration, which is also known as waste to energy or buried in a landfill.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I have one thing just to clarify. I do believe this was the plan that comes out every 10 years. Correct.
[00:13:28] Speaker C: Initially it was every 20 years, but I guess sanitation decided to make it a ten year plan. This, this go around. So it's really interesting to see what, what they will change this time.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, well, I think think about 20, 20 years is a long time to have a plan for something. Especially with a lot of things that as they evolve very quickly to wait 20 years to rethink a plan if you have to pivot or anything like that. So I think 10 years is a nicer timeline. But I think it's really important that for folks to understand like these are the things that kind of are happening behind the scenes when we're not really thinking about the fact that someone has to sit there and plan all, all of this out. And we have to make sure we have advocates like Danielle who are in these spaces making sure, telling people how these things should be planned out. Because there's a lot of things that can go missing, whether it be not thinking about organic waste properly or thinking about not thinking about community composting or other aspects of things that we've talked about on this podcast, but I just. Yeah, I didn't even realize it was 20 years originally. That's a long time for a plan and then not to be able to revisit that plan.
So if you wanted to kind of go a little bit into kind of like, how are these connected? Because I know they're all kind of happening, like, right now, but I feel like there's, like, a perfect moment in time to talk about how these.
These two bills and this plan are connected.
[00:14:44] Speaker C: Yeah. So I will say, I think that the passing of the. The bottle bill and the Packaging Reduction act would significantly reduce the amount of waste that is exported, especially plastics.
So New Yorkers actually do pay for waste exports through our tax dollars. So that would impact us in so many ways.
They would remove a substantial percentage of materials out of the waste stream and encourage people to recycle like we just talked about, and redeem their bottles, especially during a time when our economy is unstable, because those coins could quickly add up.
And then I also think that the reduction of plastic waste would alleviate the negative impact that our waste has on the environment. So in the Packaging reduction act, removing 14 toxic chemicals out of plastic would not only provide relief to our air, water, and soil quality, but could also improve public health in the long run.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Thank you for that. I feel like that's. This is kind of tying into the next question that we have, but it seems like there are clear benefits from all these pieces in terms of the public health benefits and thinking about both people in the environment and the through line there that we're always trying to connect and thinking about as an organization that's focused on environmental justice, is how is that lens of environmental justice kind of overlaid with this issue? So you've kind of already alluded to it a little bit, but just more explicitly, can you kind of recap how the issue of waste management as a whole, but kind of more specifically with these bills and this solid waste management plan really are related to environmental justice, and in a perfect world, are helping to benefit, you know, helping to benefit environmental justice communities.
[00:16:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I actually have three.
Three points here. Firstly, that the garbage that we produce as a city is sent to communities that have to deal with our consumption and waste. You know, whether it is burned in an overburdened community like in Newark, New Jersey, or Chester, Pennsylvania, or if it's buried in a landfill somewhere in upstate New York, there are harmful environmental impacts which contaminates the air, soil, and water supply in those areas.
And then there's also the issue of Waste transfer stations right here in the city. They are usually located in overburdened neighborhoods like the one in South Bronx, where asthma rates are high and sanitation truck traffic contributes to that.
And then lastly, there's also the litter issue that we all deal with. The. The majority of plastic waste. So think water and soda bottles, plastic straws and utensils, plastic wrappers and bags. They all end up in our ecosystem here in the city. They clog our street drains, which has been problematic during bad weather conditions, and then plastic bags end up in our trees. So all of these things are actually damaging our city's infrastructure.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: And would you be able to speak to a little bit of, like, when it comes to the solid waste management plan, do you feel like the. The draft, so far as trying to address some of these issues through the lens of environmental justice is kind of like, its basis and like, trying to think through that, or is there more opportunity for the plan to address those kind of environmental justice issues?
[00:17:56] Speaker C: I think there is a lot of opportunity to address it. The plan mostly talks about what they're currently doing, and it seems like they just want to continue pushing that process through. But there could be a lot more done to educate people on zero waste and how to recycle properly, because a lot of New Yorkers still don't do that. Our city's current recycling capture rate is about 18%.
When we have the. The North America's most robust and advanced recycling system, it's kind of wild that we're not even at 50% recycling rate. So sanitation can definitely do more to address that.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Can you unpack that number a little bit? So by Capture, you said 18% capture rate for recycling. Does that mean 18% of the possible materials that could be recycled are being recycled, or does it mean something else?
[00:18:48] Speaker C: The possible materials that could be recycled?
[00:18:50] Speaker A: That's quite low. That is quite low.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: So shocked by that number. Because you think about. I feel like it was anything, because I know we've talked about on the podcast before, and Daniel and I talk a lot about sometimes food waste in organic waste.
People still not really catching on to how to do that properly in our homes, but I feel like we've all had such an ingrained thing about plastics and cardboard and paper.
There's a song I always think of from a TV show from Nickelodeon, which I'm not gonna sing here, but I just feel like we were also ingrained in that to kind of. You would think that those kind of capture rates for recyclables will be so much higher.
Especially for the city where you see the blue bins at every single apartment, you see the bags, you see the people handling it. So I don't know, I just. In my head, 18% just seems so, so low. I'm disappointed. We gotta do better.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: We could do better. Well, besides being really sad that we have so much more opportunity to be recycling in New York, one of the things that you said that I wanted to circle back to is around the piece of setting our waste to other communities, the impact there.
Something you mentioned earlier too, that's kind of related to, to that is the idea of when it's sent to different communities outside of the city, including New Jersey, some of that is incinerated, right? It's burned.
And we have actually another episode that we did earlier. So I encourage folks who are kind of curious, like, what does that mean when you burn plastic and you're burning waste? What are the implications or what are the consequences there?
We'll make sure to include a link in the show notes for folks to listen to that episode because unsurprisingly, it's bad. Burning trash, burning plastic, not great. But to, you know, unpack more of, like, what does it actually mean for folks that are living in the communities that are nearby those facilities? We get into more detail and talk to some folks so you can check that out. But on this thread of, you know, the Solid Waste Management Plan, clearly there's opportunities to, you know, embed environmental justice maybe more concretely in that plan and, you know, helping to move these bills forward.
We're always trying to think about how can folks who are listening to this episode right now take action, get involved. If folks are really moved to do so, what are ways that folks can help support the advocacy that you've been doing?
[00:21:03] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a good starting point for people is to participate in any street cleanup, even if it's just one, just to see the full extent of the damage that litter, especially plastics, has on our environment.
And once they have that context, they can advocate for the passing of the two bills that we talked about. They didn't pass this year in 2025, but going into 2026, we would like to see more advocacy and more support around these bills so they can encourage their senators and their assembly members to sign onto the bills, then also testifying during public comment periods. Especially with the Solid Waste Management Plan, there will be an opportunity for people to have their voices heard and explain issues matter to them.
And I would also add, engaging with your friends and family and co workers on these Issues because chances are some of them may not know how to recycle properly or understand why it's important.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think you got. Everyone can kind of keep a lookout. Make sure you're signed up for we act newsletter. That's where we kind of put a lot of our advocacy and call to action information. Also, our membership meetings are going to be an opportunity and I think I'm going to put it out here on the podcast now. But I think. I think Danielle should come talk to our membership a little bit. Northern Manhattan. I think we need a little refresher on how to actually properly recycle and to.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: That was pretty much to boost our sad numbers.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like to put. I feel like we can have a whole Northern Manhattan initiative of like, I think we want to get better than the 18.
There's the campaign. Better than 18.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Yes.
Yeah.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: But yeah, I think it's really important that folks, you know, kind of get an understanding of what's going on and how it actually impacts everyone around us, even though it may not impact you directly here in the city when it comes to. Because we ship our trash out. And I think we spent about what, half a billion dollars, Danielle, to ship our waste. And so imagine if we could recoup some of that money. What are the funding that things could go actually go towards as opposed to just sending our waste around to pollute other communities?
[00:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
I know there's a lot of pieces to this that we've covered, but just reiterating to folks, you know, these two bills at the New York State Legislature, the Packing Reduction and Recycling Infrastructure act, prea. I'll say it again, the BATA bill and then the Solid Waste Management Plan. Beyond those things, is there anything else kind of on this stream of solid waste and plastics or just anything else that's kind of. That's on your mind or that you're thinking about, that you want to plug or mention for folks to just be thinking about as we're kind of in this space.
[00:23:40] Speaker C: Yeah. I will say I. I personally enjoy living a zero waste or at least a reduced waste lifestyle. I actually don't think it is as difficult as people think it is. Once you adjust your mindset to realize that not everything belongs in the trash, it becomes second nature to find a better way to dispose of things. And certain things don't even need to be thrown away. Like if you have a glass jar, you can actually use that to store something else and it doesn't have to be recycled at all. So you're Just using it.
So, you know, kind of just being creative with our waste.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: Absolutely. I appreciate the mindset shift. You know, I myself have also kind of gone through a bit of that process recently, trying to think about, trying to use different, you know, avoiding plastic packaging materials, thinking about other types of materials, but then thinking about ways to reduce, reuse, recycle. That whole, you know, old saying still very relevant these days.
So I appreciate that reminder for that mindset.
So thinking about it at all levels, you know, at the high policy level, things that we can do there, but also those actions that we can take on an individual level to contribute that maybe feel a little bit more accessible and immediate. So we always appreciate that reminder.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's always necessary for us to have both kind of approaches from top down in our individual everyday lives and the things that changes that we need to make, but we also need those structural changes from the top down as well to, in order for everyone to kind of meet in the middle so that we can all again, the goal is to have zero waste and I think we can all work together and everyone can contribute.
Small, there's small changes you can make that I don't have to be drastic, you don't have to go through and completely overhaul your entire lifestyle tomorrow after you've heard Danielle speaking. But there are small things that you can think about. Like, yeah, being creative with those glass jars. I'm. I have a box of glass jars and I recently just, I was like, oh, I don't have a container to put this food that I just made in. And I was like, oh no, I have plenty of containers to put this food in.
[00:25:28] Speaker C: Oh, you see?
[00:25:29] Speaker B: And things like that. So it's like, yeah, it's kind of getting out of the mindset of that you need something new or that you have to start, start fresh, that you already probably have all the tools you need to kind of to make these changes.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. If you like this episode, make sure to rate and review the show on whatever platform you listen on. If you have thoughts, we encourage you to reach out to us with your thoughts and
[email protected] check out we act.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: On Facebook that @weact4ej. That's W E A C T F O R E j on Instagram, bluesky and YouTube at weact4ej. That's we a C T number 4ej and check out our website weact.org for more information about environmental justice.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: Till next time, Sam.
