Renewable Energy of the Future

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to Uptown Chats, a podcast where we share stories about environmental justice by and for everyday people. I'm your co host, Jaron. [00:00:25] Speaker B: And I'm your other co host, Lonnie. [00:00:27] Speaker A: And today we have a fun episode in store for you. We're making a trip into the future. [00:00:33] Speaker B: That's right. As a little bonus episode of our Right Direction miniseries, we thought it'd be fun to explore some emerging renewable energy technologies that we've heard about and talk about whether they might be real solutions or not so much. [00:00:46] Speaker A: That's right. And to spice things up a little bit, we'll be playing a little game that may or may not be based on a popular television show. But before we get into the fun stuff, Lonnie, can you share WEAC's mission? [00:00:59] Speaker B: WEAC's mission is to build healthy communities by ensuring that people of color and or low income residents participate meaningfully in the creation of sound and fair environmental health and protection policies and practices. [00:01:10] Speaker A: So, as we mentioned before, Lonnie and I will be exploring some renewable energy technologies ranging from totally plausible to way out there. And to help us play our little game, we've got Jama Joseph here, who is we ACT Communications associate. Welcome, jama. [00:01:27] Speaker C: Hey, guys, thanks for having me. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Of course, Jama has been a big help throughout our Right Direction miniseries, but today he has a special role and that is helping us decide which of these technologies seem the most promising and which ones we might have some second thoughts about. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Lonnie and I will each take turns making the case for our respective technologies, Tajama, who will pose some important questions and things for us to consider. And our goal is to convince JAMA that our technologies are the real deal. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Yep. We'll each cover two emerging technologies, and after we're done, it'll be up to JAMA to decide which technology is most promising. There aren't any prizes or anything, but the winner will get bragging rights, which we all know is most important. You can kind of think of JAMA as this trillionaire who wants to invest money into one of these technologies. So that's the. That's the show we were alluding to. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Exactly. And Lonnie and I are both a little competitive, so we're really going to try our best. I will say quick disclaimer. [00:02:27] Speaker D: This episode is for entertainment and educational purposes only. REACT does not endorse any of the technologies discussed in this episode. Discussion of investments in any of the aforementioned technologies is fictitious and does not reflect any investment of real monies by WEACT or Any affiliated parties. Enjoy. [00:02:38] Speaker A: So with that said, good luck, Lonnie. And, you know, may the best competitor win. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Sure, whatever. I'm gonna crush you, Jamma. Are you ready? [00:02:47] Speaker C: I am ready. I just want to make a disclaimer that I'm a good trillionaire and a philanthropist. So hopefully I could help you guys explore these technologies more. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Thank you, Jama. All right, well, since I am so generous, I will let you go first, Lonnie. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Oh, really? Okay, so I'm going first. All right, so, Jama, hear me out. Imagine if you could grow trees with no soil. What would you say? What would you think about that? [00:03:15] Speaker C: I think that's an interesting idea. I wouldn't replace them. I wouldn't replace trees. I think trees are a good natural solution to decarbonization. But I want to hear more. What else would you have to say about this technology? [00:03:31] Speaker B: Yes. So there's this technology out there called liquid trees. And I'm obsessed with this technology. And the reason why is that it promises like cutting edge urban photo bioreactor that uses microalgae to clean the air just like a mature tree, except it fits footprints of a phone booth. And these are really good for really dense urban areas. We live in a concrete jungle here in New York City, and there's very limited places where we can put more trees. We always are supporting a building more trees and more trees, but there's a little bit of an issue there. Space. And also, in order to get the full benefits of a tree, of a mature tree, it takes about 10 to 20 years to deliver. So those saplings that you see that are, that are planted as nice as they are, they require a lot of maintenance to make sure that they get to maturity in order to get the full benefits. However, unlike a tree like a sapling, liquid trees are basically plug and play devices. And they start to sequester CO2 and generate oxygen immediately using the microalgae. So one unit can absorb the same amount of carbon dioxide as a 10 year old tree every single day. So think about that. [00:04:44] Speaker C: Well, if you put it that way, I think that's interesting. The fact that New York City doesn't have a lot of space for trees. So we're not necessarily replacing trees, but we're basically adding more to urban areas. This sounds like a great idea. I would love to know who would maintain these liquid trees. Is the technology so simple that maintenance is fairly easy to upkeep during the future is the only thing that I would be curious about. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, right now it's out of the lab. So they actually do exist somewhere. And there's some installed in Belgrade, Serbia, as part of a pilot program, and there are prototypes being studied in other urban areas across Europe. So when you're investing this and there's a little political will, imagine a whole city kind of purchasing these and think about all the different spaces that these could exist, especially in EJ communities or communities where there's a lot of industrial spaces as well to help with the clean air aspect of the community. And again, if every bus stop had one, if every. I mean, there aren't any phone booths anymore in New York City, I think there's like one left in a train station on our 45th Street. But if you think about all the different places where we could put these in conjunction with also building trees and preserving our mature trees that we already have within our urban canopy, it would be a nice way to augment to removing some of the carbon dioxide that's in our center air. [00:06:12] Speaker C: I'm definitely interested in this idea. It would tackle a lot of air justice issues that we face specifically in northern Manhattan. So it's an interesting idea. And you seem to make maintenance seem like something that's already been, you know, people have already started these projects, so maintenance wouldn't be as big as an issue. So I'm interested in this idea. [00:06:34] Speaker B: Awesome. You should be. It's a good idea. It's a really good idea. [00:06:40] Speaker A: All right, Lonnie, unless Jammed has more questions, I'm ready to pipe in with my technologies. So, Jahmid, are there any more questions that you have as a potential investor in these technologies for. Lonnie, ready to hear your. [00:06:54] Speaker C: Your great idea, Jaron. I must say this is going to be a great episode because liquid trees to start off with is something. [00:07:02] Speaker A: I mean, I will say I don't want to help Lonnie's case, but I also think liquid trees are super cool. So I'm glad that they made an appearance in this episode. But that's not what I'm here to talk about today. Thank you, Lonnie, for that pitch. But what I'm here to talk about today is something actually also aquatic in nature. But before I get too far, let me start with a question. When you think of renewable energy and the ocean, what comes to mind? [00:07:30] Speaker C: I think about offshore wind. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Exactly. Which is where a lot of people's minds go for most of us, when you think of renewable energy, ocean, offshore wind. And that's great because we're starting to see more of that, including here in New York. As you probably know, wind turbines produce electricity from the wind blowing out there in the ocean. And it can get pretty windy out there, even though we're not necessarily out there to experience. I've seen enough Pirates of the Caribbean movies and other ocean going movies where it gets pretty crazy out there. But what if I told you you were only capturing a portion of the energy that we could be out in the ocean? Sounds pretty cool, right? Well. Well, in fact, we are. And I'm going to tell you more. Jama, I know you're excited. Let me tell you more. There are two types of energy that we could be capturing from the ocean. Tidal energy and wave energy. And if you're thinking to yourself, aren't those the same thing? Well, I thought the same. I thought, I thought that too, until, until I learned more. Until my mind was opened up to the possibilities of the ocean. Well, take you back to some science science here. Science class. Ocean tides are caused by the moon's gravitational force pulling water towards it as it orbits Earth. So that tides you can think of as a product of moon's gravitational force. Waves on the other hand, are caused by the wind blowing across the ocean surface. So two different natural phenomenons going on there. But all that movement from the wind blowing on the ocean surface means ocean waters contain a huge amount of kinetic energy. So it sounds pretty cool, right? But what does it have to do with energy? We get this kinetic energy, what can we do with it? I'm posing a lot of rhetorical questions for you here, John, but you don't need to answer this one. Well, According to the U.S. department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Laboratory, tidal and wave energy could potentially generate over 41400 terawatt hours per year of energy, which is enough to power around 130 million homes. A whole lot of energy that's not being tapped into at the scale it could be right now. But there are. I'm here to talk more specifically about one type of energy, and that, and that is wave energy. So let me do a little history here. So we got science. We're basically just doing, covering all the subjects here. So we decided we're going to go into history here for a second. So attempts to use wave energy date back as far as the late 18th century. So in 1799, a French inventor by the name of Pierre Simon Girard. Probably saying his name wrong. I'm so sorry, I don't speak French. Along with his son, designed a machine to mechanically capture the energy of ocean waves. I think they use it to do some milling of wheat or something. But this is the first technology of its kind and was designed, like I said, primarily to power heavy machinery like mills and pumps. So yield technology in the 19. In the 1860s, the city of San Francisco began experimentation using wave technology to power boats. That makes sense, right? Boats on the ocean, you know, use that energy. And later in the century, wave energy converters, which I'll talk about in a second. And motors were being developed all over the world as people were searching for new innovations to solve local environmental problems, empower small communities. And so many of our cities and communities are by the water, so it makes sense. But last, little fun trivia fact here. 1940s, Yoshi Omasuda, Chief scientist at the Japan Marine Science and Technology center, former Japanese naval commander and and widely regarded as the father of modern wave power technology, is credited for the creation of the oscillating water column, another cool piece of technology. And a few decades later, in 1974, Stephen Salter, a professor at the University of Edinburgh, explored the seas around Scotland and launched the world's first major wave energy project. So now we're getting up closer to modern times, which is why we're here today. So although the ocean waves proved too much for his concept of this house sized floating generator, in recent years we've seen more devices that can withstand the harsh environments that they're designed for. Like I said before, you think about way out there in the ocean, all the movies that we've seen of crazy giant waves. How do you have a technology that can withstand that? So I know the anticipation is killing you. Jama, let me just cut right to the chase and talk about the technology that I'm here to talk about today. And one product that was developed by a company from Sweden that based their design on the pumping mechanism of the heart. This device is considered that wave energy converter that I mentioned before. It's a specific type of wave energy technology, and it captures the kinetic energy of ocean waves and converts it into electricity. Boom. Mind blown. So there's several different types of wave energy converters, but this device is what's considered a point absorber. The little dot sits on the ocean surface and it is using that kinetic energy from the ocean. And essentially it's just made up a floating buoy that moves in concert up and down with the motion of the waves and captures that mechanical energy from the rise and fall of the surface waves. And it produces electricity through a power generator. And why I chose this one specifically, it's super cool. Because I'm a nerd for stuff like this. Just like the human heart, this device uses stored hydraulic pressure to provide force for the return stroke. So, you know, we don't always think about how our heart works, but essentially the pumping motion of this device allows it to produce more energy despite being super lightweight, and also counteracts some of that upward force of the waves. You can imagine this thing sitting on the ocean surface and there's a big wave comes and it, you know, what prevents it from just getting launched up in, into the air and getting destroyed or what have you. It's this pumping mechanism of the heart. So super cool. And the interesting part is like, okay, cool, we have these little things floating out in the ocean. How do we get the energy to where we need it? Well, these devices are connected to the seabed using this tension system. And the first commercial demonstration for these devices has actually already been launched off of the coast of Portugal back in 2023. So it's an exciting time for wave energy. Access to commercially available wave energy devices would allow remote and coastal communities to reduce dependence on fossil fuels and instead be powered by this carbon emission free, consistent, locally derived, renewable electricity from these super cool devices and open up this thing called the blue economy. Think about all the, the economic services that centered around the ocean, this reliable source of energy for folks that are working in that space. So with that jama, what do you say? Is this a great technology or what would you invest in this super awesome wave technology for our future? [00:14:39] Speaker C: You just took us to school there, Jared. That was, that was, you gave us the whole briefing, the historical rundown and how this technology works. I'm amazed, honestly. [00:14:50] Speaker A: I may have over prepared a little bit, but I just wanted to make sure we had all the information. So, so please, any questions that you have, what do you think, what are your concerns about this technology? [00:15:01] Speaker C: I think the technology is great and I also love the framing of the blue economy often and we hear about the green economy and energy transition, but the blue economy is new to me. I think these, this investment is definitely something that should be looked into as long as community ownership models are clearly expressed by the people involved in launching these initiatives, especially indigenous communities that rely on oceans for fishing and other purposes. So I think community ownership is definitely something that comes to mind. What do you think that's something that's a feasible way of deploying this technology while leading with that community ownership model? [00:15:50] Speaker A: I think that'd be great. I think that this technology is still emerging. So I think there's Lots of opportunities to see what gets done with it, but absolutely, I think that's. That's the kind of model that we would like to see. So, yeah, I'm excited to see what comes out of this. There's other examples I didn't talk about for this technology. And also we didn't even really dive into the title energy as much, which is also a whole nother can of worms, which I understand there's some consideration for that in New York, but that's not why I'm here to talk about today. So we'll. We'll get into that another time. [00:16:19] Speaker C: Yeah, and I'm. I'm also curious to. When deploying these technologies, hopefully we go to the frontline communities that need it most. I often think about, you know, islands like Puerto Rico or the Caribbean. Often they have access to water, but they're not aware of these technologies. So I think this has a lot of potential as long as it's launched properly through community participation and obviously educating communities of the power of the water that surrounds them. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Couldn't have said it any better myself. So I guess, Lonnie, do I turn it back to you? Are you ready with your second technology? I don't, I don't want to dominate the space. I want you to give. Give you a chance. [00:17:05] Speaker B: We can never dominate this space. I'm gonna dominate this space. But here I actually think that's a kind of cool idea. So it's kind of going from this idea of the ocean in this nonstop current. It's always moving. There's a lot of energy and connecting energy there. But what if I say I'm gonna take us from the ocean? I'll take us to space. Okay. Everyone loves space. Everyone loves solar power and solar energy. What if we combine the two? Hear me out. So imagine solar panels that never see a cloudy day and it shine 24 7. So space based. Oh, God, this is such a tongue. Twitter. Space Based Solar power, or sbsp, which is more and more complicated, is an emerging technology that captures solar energy in orbit and beams it down to Earth as microwave or laser energy. And that's not science fiction. It sounds like it should be in Star wars somewhere, but it's not. It actually does exist and they are working on it now. So it kind of solves a lot of different problems. Right. A lot of people talk about the need for capturing solar energy, but then you need to store it, because if they're not using it at the time, they want to store it for when they don't have when we don't have the sun. So when the sun goes down or if there's super cloudy days, it's not as efficient or not capturing as much. But this is a 247 source of solar energy and power and it's placed up there in space. You just put it up there and it's just forever there. And so if you think about things like disasters that are occurring more because of the climate crisis, you talked about Puerto Rico, Java, talk about like hurricanes and extreme weather events where there's powder, where there's power outages, there's blackouts, brownouts, all of that wouldn't exist anymore. And so it actually would be really helpful and useful for kind of like our resilience efforts and sustainability efforts too, because you now have access to power at all times everywhere. And if you can put them everywhere, it also alleviates the burden of why would we even be paying for electricity anymore? Right. If that's something that can just be put out there from our government, can be put up there and everyone can have access to it. At least that's where I think that should go is it should be free energy for everyone that's continuous. And also some people like the idea that it can bypass some of the land use tensions that can happen with solar. Sometimes people talk about, you know, you need land and you need space to in order to put solar down. And so this kind of alleviates that and you don't have to use up as much land, especially in places that are indigenous land. So satellites don't displace anyone, you put them in space and the power can be directed wherever, wherever it needs to be directed to. So right now there are several countries, China, Japan and the US specifically are testing out some of the components of these of space based solar power. So one point for the US for doing something now instead of just Europe. In 2023 actually a company launched a prototype that successfully transmitted solar energy wirelessly in space. And so the full deployment isn't likely to be super soon, but it's projected anywhere from 10 to 20 years. That's not that far away for this to be kind of deployed in a full way. So again, a great way. Energy got a sun, it's always there. Stick a solar panel up in space, you're going to get Sun 24, 7 all day, no hassles. And the goal would be free energy for everybody in the world. Think about all the things that it could change. It could change, it could change the world. Literally change the world. No questions, Java, because that's that's it. That's the one. [00:20:36] Speaker C: I love how you're thinking big, like, we're going to space now. I think the idea of not displacing people and also getting. Fixing the issue of solar community, solar by, you know, having more space to, to activate this, this technology is a great idea. The one concern I would have is once we go up into space, the governance over, you know, where we put these technologies and, you know, sometimes things aren't as diplomatic. So, you know, I feel like this is just another way of getting resources from now space. But we're not entirely sure who governs space, so it's a bit tricky. But like you said, we are 10, 20 years away from this technology being fully viable. So I think it's a great idea to keep an eye on, to see what comes of it. But how would you say we go about sharing those resources, these newly found resources of finding land in space? [00:21:41] Speaker B: That's a really good thought. I didn't even think about the geopolitics of it all. But yeah, that actually would be something that would have to be a hurdle. We'd have to all come together almost similar to, I guess, you know, how people come together for like, the, what the International Space Station kind of thing is that this is a shared thing where, you know, the largest, probably the largest producers of, of like greenhouse gas emissions in those countries who do that probably should be the ones pitching in the most to put this up there to provide this energy source for everyone. But yeah, it would take some cooperation. I know it doesn't feel like that's something that we're experiencing right now in the world, but who knows, 10, 20 years from now we could have that space, that whole entire Kumbaya moment where we're coming together and we're saying like, you know what, we're providing energy for everyone across the world. We're opening everyone's doors. And that would be my hope. But that is a really, really good thought. I didn't think about the geopolitics of it all. [00:22:31] Speaker C: I would love that to be the case as well, where these sorts of situations are diplomatically handled correctly. And it's a great idea, but I think getting everyone on the same page is, is the one challenge I see. But the Global south would definitely benefit from this if this is governed equitably. [00:22:53] Speaker B: I agree. [00:22:55] Speaker A: Well, you're making my life hard, Lonnie. [00:22:56] Speaker B: Yeah. What you got, Jaron? [00:22:57] Speaker A: What you got coming out with these, coming out with this space technology? Well, you know what I think I Got something in store. So. So, John, let's. You have any other questions? I'm ready to make my final pitch. [00:23:07] Speaker C: I don't have any specific questions at the moment. That was mind blowing, honestly. [00:23:14] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you, Lonnie, but, you know, you took us to space. I'm going to bring us back down to earth in more ways than one. And I'm actually going to take you to a beautiful place. I want you to picture yourself, Jama, and beautiful beach. The sun is shining on your face, the waves are crashing, the wind is blowing, and below your feet is the soft and gritty feeling of billions of grains of sand. And I know a lot of us have a love hate relationship with sand and we make sand castles. [00:23:45] Speaker B: I hate sand. [00:23:47] Speaker A: I knew you were gonna say that, Lottie. But, you know, sand. Some of us, some of us, some of us enjoy it, you know, getting buried in the sand, laying out on the sand. But also, it gets everywhere. It gets in all the things, and you can never. You can never really get rid of it. You get home, you shower, and it's still just sand everywhere. And also, anyone who has ever walked barefoot on the beach on a hot summer day will also tell you that sand can get very, very hot and is not great, because, of course, nobody wants to get their feet burnt, have to do the little tiptoe dance all the way to the water at the beach. But with that in mind, did you know that hot sand might also play an important role in one of the greatest renewable energy challenges that we face? Dun, dun, dun. Well, as you may or may not know, the sun is not always shining and the wind's not always blowing. Well, the sun is shining, but, you know, we're. We're not always able to receive it because the clouds. Which means that the energy that we capture from solar and for wind power is always fluctuating. Unless that solar is in space, which. Okay, that's a. That's a different point. But the question is, how do we store some of that renewable energy that we produce so that we can use it when we need it, when the sun is not shining, when it's not blowing, etc. Well, again, so many rhetorical questions. Don't worry, Jama, I'm going to answer this one for you. Generally, the answer to that question is batteries. We take that energy, we store it in batteries. But most batteries, including lithium ion batteries that are abundant nowadays, come with a whole lot of challenges. One, they continuously degrade over time, meaning they can't hold as much of a Charge two, they can cause fires, lots of examples of that, including in New York City. And they require the use of hazardous and carbon intensive materials to make them. Sand, on the other hand, is naturally occurring, abundant, cheap, and most importantly, capable of storing energy over a long period of time. Which is why some folks are using it to create thermal batteries, large thermal batteries, in fact. So what is a thermal battery, you might be asking? Well, I will tell you. So to make these batteries, you essentially have these large insulated silos that are filled with sand and connected to buildings and other structures through a series of pipes in a closed loop. Usually you can think of this kind of style as a district heating system. You know, we have these pipes that are connecting different buildings and air is circulated in these pipes. And essentially to charge the battery, this big silo filled with sand, the air in the pipes is heated and they use kind of resistive heaters or whatever you would want to use to heat the air in the pipes. And that goes on to heat the sand. And the sand can actually absorb all that heat. You think of the hot sand on the beach, the sand can hold the charge or stay hot in that insulated silo and can be used then to warm the air in the pipes at a later time to heat connected buildings when it's needed. It kind of sounds like a similar concept to geothermal energy. So folks that are familiar with how, you know, geothermal energy and thermal energy network systems work, there's, there's, there's, there's some concepts that are borrowed for this and there's actually an example of this technology. So a Finnish power plant just outside of Helsinki became one of the world's first commercial scale sand battery to provide heating and hot water for about 100 homes and, and a nearby public swimming pool. As someone who swims, I'm all for it. And viable storage of solar and wind energy is especially critical for Nordic countries. You think about places that sun's not shining and those, those countries, you have long hours of darkness and cold temperatures, so you have that increased need for heat in the winter. But you don't have the sun shining to produce energy from solar panels. So these sand batteries can help fill that gap, hold some of that thermal energy, and could be an example of a technology that could be replicated in other parts of the world where there are, you know, there's district heating infrastructure. You know, you have pipes that are connecting different buildings, including here in New York City. So with that, you know, I think this is super cool technology for those who love sand, and for those who hate sand, can serve a purpose either way and, and could be a really cool way to take advantage of existing infrastructure and also hold on to some of that energy that we're capturing from renewable energy sources. So what do you say, Jama? What do you got for me? Let's hear, let's hear some of your questions. [00:28:32] Speaker C: We all have some wild and amazing ideas, all the elements here today to think about how we could shape a better future. This idea I think is really good for energy storage and for the just transition to renewable energy. It's a different way to store power. And I like the fact that it's using a different resource other than lithium, which could be problematic to Global south communities. And when we're talking about environmental justice, we can't forget about that. I also love the fact that this could be a new source of job creation if people are trained in these heating systems and how they operate. I could see electricians and other people part of that workforce having some sort of new skill to add to their belt to help us transition to healthier energy systems. The one thing I do kind of concerns me is are utilities going to be the ones in charge of like this technology? Are they the ones that control the heat or like, who would be the ones that are in charge of like dispersing the energy? [00:29:41] Speaker A: That's a great question. And in the example that I shared in Helsinki, that was a utility company that created that system and was utilizing it for housing and for a public pool. But you know, this is the kind of technology that could be used by anyone. I could imagine a possibility where you have a picture communities taking advantage of community solar. Well, if you were to connect that community solar system to something like this as a part of that same system, then you could kind of take, take that benefit a sand battery and utilize it outside of a utility. Essentially anyone could take advantage of a technology like this. So I could see that being a use case where someone who's not tapped into a utility utilizing another source of energy could benefit from it, which is ideally what we'd probably want to see anyway. You know, a lot more of a community owned asset. You know, these things take up space, but you can scale it. You know, as much space as you have, you scale accordingly. So yeah, that's, that's, that's what I would hope to see is something like that. But it's a very flexible technology. [00:30:54] Speaker C: I definitely love the idea of leading with a community owned model to make things more equitable. And it also probably make things more affordable in, in the future. These technologies are, are, have amazing potential if used correctly and deployed correctly. So I, I'm definitely interested. The one issue that comes up with community solar is like you mentioned, not having enough land. So a few hurdles for this technology. But I really love the idea that we're not sourcing lithium anymore. So it's something that I would consider but I'm not going to tell you guys my clear winner yet. And until you guys. Is there one more technology or was that it? [00:31:37] Speaker A: Nope. Dom, I think that we are ready. Those are our pitches. We are ready for the verdict. So. [00:31:48] Speaker C: I think all these ideas are great. Like I said, a lot of them have potential to be used correctly. And, and of course when thinking about the future that we want to see, we want, we want to reverse the extractive practices that were done in history and replace them with technologies that are actually community led and equitable. And when thinking about that, I think the marine energy wave, tidal wave technology is something that really sounds more feasible to me or sounds more realistic of bringing online in the near future. I'm sure you would have to do a little bit more research and how it impacts the animals and things like that. But in terms of energy independence, minimal land use impact, economic inclusion and when we're talking about the blue economy, I was fascinated. So I think that's going to be the winner for me. The water's already there. It's just about utilizing it now correctly in terms of correcting our past mistakes and tackling the climate crisis. [00:33:03] Speaker B: It's rigged. It's a rigged show. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Well, I'll make my victory laugh quick. Thank you, Jama. I appreciate that. Glad to hear that my pitch resonated with you. And you know, I will say, Lonnie, you presented some really awesome technology that are clearly there's lots of potential there, I'm sure. Drama. We made your decision very difficult, but we appreciate you being a fair and thoughtful judge. So we're glad that we got to have you on this episode. Any for any of us, any, any closing thought. Yes, I thought the Liquid Trees was a real contender. As someone who's also a big fan, Lonnie and I have been nerding out over Liquid Trees for at least a couple, for at least a year or two now. So I was excited to hear your pitch on that. [00:33:48] Speaker B: But yeah, you know, it's not as cool as Tidal apparently, but yeah, I think one thing, I guess the final thing I'll say is too is that we thought it would be fun to kind of have this episode also get a little bit, I want to say behind the scenes of like what things and thought processes we need to go through when we're thinking about technologies as they come across because we did a Wrong Direction series last year with things that are being greenwashed or things that are not. What communities need are not actually the solutions to move us away from fossil fuels. But we have to be scrutiny. We have to be able to scrutinize every different aspect of these different technologies, as cool as they may sound. And I think JAMA did a great job of really kind of giving us that pushback for some of these things that I didn't think about before. So yeah, it's my last. Thank you. [00:34:33] Speaker C: Thank you guys for having me. I enjoyed this conversation a lot and often when we're thinking about these ideas, they may seem way out in the future. But if we want to reimagine a future where better things are possible, I think conversations like these are needed. And I'm here to keep you all honest. So I'm glad you guys are thinking about a more equitable and clean future. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Thank you, jama. Well, with that we can go ahead and thank you all for listening to this episode. It's a little fun, but you know, we have some also important points made in there. Thanks mostly to Jama, but also your closing remarks, Lana. I appreciate that bringing us back to reality. If you like this episode, make sure to rate and review the show on whatever platform you listen on. And if you have thoughts about the show, we encourage you to reach out to us with your thoughts and [email protected]. [00:35:23] Speaker B: Check out we act on Facebook at weact4ej. That's W E A C T F O R E J on Instagram, Blue sky and YouTube at weact4ej. That's W E A C T4EJ and check out our website, weact.org for more information about environmental justice. Until next time.