[00:00:21] Speaker A: Twas the night of our podcast, and all through the year, we shared stories and voices that we hold very dear. Each episode brought us new lessons to learn, from green space to greenwashing and evil gases that burn.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: We started with rats, which we continue to fight, and explored some solutions with all of our might. In springtime, we featured Peggy shepherd, our boss, who told us about a great leader we lost.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: The summer brought tales of energy justice as we dove into false solutions among us. The fall leaves then rustled as we began to review our year of hard work with EPA Region 2.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Now the year is almost over, and it's time to reflect on the progress we've made and moments to protect. But tonight, we've a treat that's ever so jolly. A guest who will brighten our podcast with folly.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: So gather around and lend us your ear for we axe. Jeff Jones is bringing the cheers. We'll chat about his life and where we want EJ to go as we wrap up this season with a holiday show.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: So thank you, dear listeners, for all that you do for joining our journey the whole season through.
Now sit back, relax as the episode starts with stories and laughter to warm all our hearts.
Thank you so much for joining us, Jeff. We're so happy to have you on this very special holiday, special episode of the podcast. There's always a great opportunity to kind of just reflect on the past year and think about things ahead and just to tell some fun stories. We know that so much of the work in environmental justice is about working with communities and telling the stories of communities and the work that they've done and the work that they're doing. And we're grateful that we get to kind of honor that in this episode of just, just doing some storytelling. It's a fun, a fun time of year to be doing that. We can, you know, pretend that we're all sitting around our cozy fireplace sipping our beverage of choice and telling some stories. But again, we're so happy to have you, Jeff. And before we get too far into the episode, we wanted to give you a chance to just introduce yourself and just tell us kind of briefly how you got into the environmental justice space in the first place.
[00:02:40] Speaker C: Well, Jaron and Lonnie, thank you so much for inviting me to, inviting me to be a part of this. It is a wonderful way to end our year. That has been a year we're looking for joy in, a year that's had some complications to it, some of them fairly recently. But you asked me how I wound up in this space and I'd just like to say a couple of things. I'm from Southern California originally, so West Coast. A family that wasn't particularly political, but had very progressive and political values and was also very much an outdoor family. My father, for example, was born in Yosemite Valley in Yosemite National Park. So we would often go up to the Sierras and on family retreats. I spent one summer hiking the John Muir Trail through the High Sierras. I don't want to overstate it, but we probably camped at least one weekend every month while I was growing up, so that, that put me outdoors. But at the same time we had a real awareness of what was going on in the world. And two major political events were playing out. Just as I was sort of coming to the end of my high school career and getting into some level of consciousness. So of course the Civil rights movement. I very much remember not going, unfortunately to the 1963 March on Washington, but getting together with some friends from the local American Friends Service Committee, a Quaker affiliated organization. I was attached to like a week later to get a report on what, what happened and didn't hear about Martin Luther King's I have a Dream speech and other things that happened at the March on Washington. And I can't resist a sidebar. But my wife, Eleanor Stein, who folks at we act know, actually as a teenager attended that in 1963. So I married somebody who was there and then I was also, because I came from an anti war family, I was very interested, not just interested, but developed trying to figure out what I thought about what was then more or less the start of the war in Vietnam. So. And I could tell you stories about that, although they're not like the kind of warm year end stories that we're looking for. I will say that as I went through my growing up years and, and came east to go to college a little bit for a couple of years at Antioch College in Ohio, it became more active in the political movement. You know, it was very intense. I mean, the Civil rights movement was a life threatening experience for some people. The Vietnam War was pretty intense. Were we going to be drafted in those days? And I sort of lost my touch with nature and the outdoors for a while.
So I just want to tell you that I've been at Antioch, which is near Dayton, Ohio for about six weeks and someone said, hey, let's go to New York City for the weekend. And I'm thinking, is that something we could do? It never even occurred to me that you could do something like that. So we pile in a VW Beetle, you know, cramped little car. Most uncomfortable 20 hours I've ever spent. And the sun comes up as we hit the George Washington Bridge. Sunrise on the George Washington Bridge. We came across the bridge and I said, hey, this is. This is where I want to spend my life. So it took me a while to get back, but it took a couple of years. But I did make it to New York City and did live in the city for the next 25 years. And then as I was becoming very much a city person and all kinds of things were happening, I then began to discover the Catskills and the Hudson Valley, and that whole outdoor part of my existence was coming back to me. And I. And I need that. I've always needed that. I needed. I need to go walking in the woods today just to meditate and calm down and think things through. And then I began and I was very actively involved in the political movement. My organization was Students for a Democratic Society.
And I was actually the New York State, New York City regional coordinator of SDS for a couple of years.
And that was very intense political height of the Vietnam War, all kinds of stuff going on. And I realized I needed that release to get back into the woods or to walk along the beach or something like that. And it was a while before I realized that there was a environmental movement. And so then I began to integrate my political work with the environmental movement. And I've been an environmental activist for a long time. But the politics that I came to understand during the civil rights era made me realize the disproportionate impacts that our environment was having on people, especially people living in the city. And so when my path crossed WEX and a couple of other of the EJ organizations in New York City, I was immediately drawn to these. These organizations and wanted to be a part of it. And I just feel blessed that I've been able to actually be a part of we act all these years now. And the work that the organization has been doing is remarkable. And it just seems to only get better.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: I love hearing everyone's kind of like almost their origin story in some ways, because also just how it relates to a lot of folks kind of have the same. You're talking about civil rights, anti war and like, your connection to nature, but you wound up in this space here in New York City. And I just love that no one has, like, a direct pathway so far. It's just been like, I woke up and, you know, I went to school and I'm going into Environmental justice or I'm going into this work, this environmental work. I love the other connection that people have with it and also my own personal connection with. I think I came through the Lincoln Tunnel for my first time being coming into New York City and saying like, this is where I want to live. And then I think I was like in middle school at the time and here I am now, you know, been here for almost like what, 14 years now. So definitely share that with you. There's like this something about New York City kind of grasping people in that way, but a alongside that, we know that you have a very active career as an activist in this environmental space. As you kind of come to and realize the disproportionate impacts and what's going on and your connection to everything going on in New York. Can you share some highlights of your career as an activist or if that's how you want to describe yourself?
[00:09:17] Speaker C: Oh, that's exactly how I describe myself, absolutely. And I, I hope I'm still considered an activist. I certainly feel like my work with WE ACT is activist work. You know, developing consciousness about racism in the country and eventually becoming aware of history, because I come from a family of historians. And so the understanding of sort of the history of this country and how we and what we're going through right now has always been a driving force for me. And I don't want to go too far down that road right now. But when I got to New York City, which would put me here in 67, 68, 69, I was very much involved in the anti war movement, doing demonstrations, getting arrested, demonstrations, and like some people dealing with the question of how to resist the draft and not going to Vietnam. And along the way I just kept having experiences that helped me realize how racism was playing out in the world that I was living in at that moment, which is still the world that unfortunately that we're living in today. If I was going to tell one story, though, it wouldn't be a New York City story. It would be. I was taking a drive across country. This was in the early 70s with a couple of friends of mine, including Eleanor. But this was before, before we became the couple that we've been the last 50 some odd years. And we stopped at near Sedona, Arizona. And actually we went. First we went on the Navajo reservation and we visited an old friend of her family's who had lived in New York City for many years and then had settled out on the Navajo reservation. And after spending a day there, we went down and we were Just going to hang out by this beautiful river that flows north, south in northern Arizona. And so we were just sitting there was three of us, and we were sitting there by the, by the river. And about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, the river filled up with a whole bunch of young people getting. The local community college had just closed for the day. And so people came and they were hanging out by the river, jumping in the water slide rocks, sliding down the rocks. And so they were there for about two hours and then all of a sudden, very quickly it became very quiet and they all just left. And we were wondering what was going on. And then we looked down the river and here came six guys from the Navajo reservation. And they had, they had some beer with them and they had been drinking quite a bit. And the locals got out of there and we just hung around and hung out with these guys and we got to know them and we found out that the reason that they were, what they were doing that afternoon, hanging out together is that one of them had just been drafted and was leaving for Vietnam the next day. And you know, probably most people don't realize this, but if you, if a member of your, if you had a family that had more than one draft age son and you had a son who went to Vietnam, then the other son was not required to go. That was, it was, it was an unwritten, it might have even been a written rule for all I know. But these guys, one of the guy who was being sent came from a family of seven brothers. And this is dramatic, but six of them had already been killed in Vietnam.
And that is, that was such a dramatic moment politically in helping us understand just how racist and unfair the structure of the country is. So they were, this guy had, you know, he was being sent off to Vietnam with the expectation he wouldn't be coming back. And his friends were spending an afternoon by the river saying goodbye to him. And they were generous enough because our attitudes, if we wanted to get to know them, we wanted to hang out. And also, you know, we didn't say goodbye because we didn't know them. But you know, it was a very moving experience, just one of many like that I've had. And I can point to things like that that have happened to me in other parts of the country too. But that one really stands out at me at just exposing the disproportionate, what we today would call disproportionate impact of policies in this country that we don't like. I would jump way ahead now. Just say that we were now living in upstate New York. Now this is 20, 25 years later. We'd left the city after many years and come up state for what we thought was a two year stay up in the Albany area. And we're still here many, many years later because we actually like it in upstate New York. But I remember the first time that I saw Cecil Corbin Mark in action. And I was working at the time as the communications director of Environmental Advocates. And I can't remember what the event was, but it was somewhere in the Bronx. I know I'm jumping around a little bit here in terms of places. It was a meeting in the Bronx, it was a coalition meeting. And it was the day of the Five Borough bike ride. Someone had organized a Five Borough bike ride. And Cecil had. It was exhausted because he had just ridden his bike through five boroughs. And then he showed up at this meeting and he gave a very winning and moving talk about environmental justice. And that was a big moment in my life in terms of realizing who he was, realizing what we act was as an organization, what the environmental justice movement was in New York City. I turned out I knew people quite well in the New York City Environmental justice alliance and also UPROSE in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. So I just found myself gravitating to the issue of environmental justice because it reflected the values that I had developed growing up. And then I get more specific about how I really got involved with We Act. And I'd love to do that, but that's sort of how I became aware of we act and the EJ movement in New York City.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Since you set us up so well for that, we'll kind of transition and ask you to share just a little bit more about that part of the story.
We've at least gotten to the point where you made it to New York. Clearly you've run into some we act people.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Just help us build that story out a little bit more. What did that look like as you start to kind of get more involved with We Act.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: So thank you. I wound up. I mean, when I was in New York City, I was doing several different kinds of jobs and trying to get my feet in the political movement. This is after the end of the Vietnam War, during which time I knew exactly what I was doing.
But then when I got up to Albany and I started doing some work around the state Capitol, first I was a reporter for five years covering the Capitol. And then I became the communications director of Environmental Advocates, statewide environmental organization. And in that role, I found myself in a position where I would start to interact with other organizations. And foremost among them was WE Act. And so I don't know how many years I've been coming to the gala, the we act gala, but it's a long time. And as I got to know we act told the story about seeing Cecil for the first time and meeting Peggy and getting to know Peggy and hearing the history of the organization, the thing that jumped out at me the most was that this is an organization that at its roots, at its foundation, it's a community based organization. And you do community organizing. We do community organizing. And so the background that I came from, from my earlier political work, had very high respect for community organizing. And to this day, the stuff that I'm most committed to and most proud of in terms of what. What we do as an organization, what we act does is the community work, the membership meetings, mobilizing people to vote, nonpartisan, of course, and the. The way the organization, which is beginning to function on a global stage, we can maybe get to that, but is rooted in the communities of West Harlem, Washington Heights. That just means so much to me, and it's so real. And I remember a conversation I had with Peggy. I have no idea how long ago this was, but I think it was probably about 2006, 2007. I mean, we're talking almost 20 years ago when I was really getting to know her. And I told her this, I said, I just. The people that I've met who work for this organization are so good and so committed and so dedicated and so smart that I can't tell you how much I respect the organization. And she called me up a little while later and asked me to meet her in Bryant Park. It was a beautiful, sunny afternoon. She invited me to join the board of directors of the organization.
I considered it a tremendous honor. I said yes immediately and have been on the board ever since. So I have been on the board for 16 years now. It's one of the most important things that I think I do well.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: I didn't realize you were on the board for 16 years.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: That's.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Actually, I learned that today.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: I would love to hear. And I think that's kind of. You're starting to get there. What are some of the biggest changes that you've seen over those 16 years of we Act? We act has evolved a lot, I imagine, in those 16 years while you've been on the board in terms of both campaigns, and also just the role in the environmental justice movement in general. So I'd love to hear your thoughts about what some of those big changes that you've seen that stand out to you the most about WE Act?
[00:18:56] Speaker C: Well, thank you for that question. And again, I just want to say thank you to everybody for letting me be a part of this whole transformation of this organization.
When I first got there, it was a healthy organization with really good people at all levels. But what was the staff? 10, 12 people? Maybe even a little bit less than that. And one of the main things that I have been able to be a part of with this organization is the growth of We Act. It's quadrupled in size in the 16 years that I've been on the board. And we've been through a couple of strategic planning periods. And it's no coincidence that it's the consistency of this organization, it's commitment to the community, but its ability to work at very high levels of government as well, which, of course has, until about a month from now, has included direct access to the White House for Peggy and the fact that we now have a federal policy office in Washington, D.C. these are remarkable accomplishments. And I think about it now when we have our annual board and staff retreat and we have to find a place for more than 60 people to gather, that is a thrill that this environmental justice organization, which was fighting for survival and fighting to be recognized, has operated on such a consistent and politically smart level that people support it significantly. Foundations recognize what we represent. Politicians recognize what we represent. I sometimes say, all right, I'll just say it, because this is a holiday podcast. I think we actually the most important organization in the world.
And. And I'm. I'm not completely. I mean, I'm quite serious about this in the sense that this is the most powerful country in the world and it's built on a race, the superstructure and oppression of people that still has to be addressed. And here's an organization with a. With full of heart, full of spirit, full of commitment, that people go out every day and try to tackle these issues and do it in such a way that the people in power both either respect us as an organization or they know they have to deal with us, or they'll be hearing about it.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Thank you for that. I think that one thing that we all are aware of is that we also know that we have very interesting four years ahead of us. So if you have other just, I guess, general reflections and thoughts about where the environmental justice movement is and kind of this particular moment that we find ourselves at now, and. And just your thoughts about what might be in store for the next couple.
[00:21:57] Speaker C: Years well, there is, there is something I'd like to say or some thoughts I'd like to share about that. And I'm trying to stick, do the best I can to be with the spirit that we're having this conversation in, of upbeat and hopeful because we're headed for a rough patch here. There's no question. And some of the goals, the things that have been achieved by the environmental justice movement, like Justice 40, for example, and the executive order which the next president will overturn the first day he's in office, these are rough patches that we have ahead. But I've been in a bunch of community discussions in the last couple of weeks that have been like therapy sessions.
How are we going to keep ourselves together? How are we going to remain optimistic as we go forward? One of those discussions the other night, someone asked the question, how would you define this particular moment that we're in? What is the defining characteristic of this period? And actually Barbara Smith, who is a great feminist, black feminist, author of many years, who is a neighbor of mine up here in the Albany area, she was the one who was asked the question and she said, what period are we in? Another morning in the struggle.
And that's we faced a lot of hardship. The political movement, the environmental justice movement, the anti war movement, the women's liberation movement, the gay and trans rights movement. I mean we've all, everyone has faced some really tough periods and some people have suffered. We've lost people along the way, but I'm not aware of anybody who's planning to quit. And the other thing that I think is so important that we act represents that not everybody understands, is that our strength is in our communal struggle.
The fact that we have so many people that are working together, that trust each other, that love each other and are committed to having this fight together. In other words, we are a movement. And to me that's the most important thing. Hold onto that value, that belief that we are a movement for progressive social change. And we know we'll suffer some setbacks, but we will keep fighting. And that makes everything that we do worthwhile. We can make mistakes, of course, we can go down some dead end roads, but I think for the most part we're not going to. Especially we act. I think that's one of the things I love about the organization, is that it has developed a practice over the last 35 years that has been pointed in the right direction. And there's no reason to think that that's not going to change.
And the fact that we're going to be doing this together is a reason for people to both be hopeful and actually look forward to the struggle. So that's my most upbeat belief, but that's my most sincere belief. I mean, that's what keeps me going.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: I love that. And, you know, it does always. I like being reminded that this movement is not over and never stopped. Right. It's. It's been a movement and it's just been going on. So it's continued to see, like you said, rough patches and that have been overcome. And that's what keeps it. That's what keeps it alive is the. Is when you get that opposition and when you start to feel too comfortable and you realize, oh, no, there's. There's something else coming in here. And that mobilization, that remobilization of everyone again in the movement, I think it's really important for. For people to realize that it doesn't. It doesn't stop or doesn't end or you don't. We don't surrender. We don't just give up. It's. It's like. Well, like you said, go to bed and we'll figure out tomorrow morning what we. What we do next and where we go from there. What are some of the. I'm trying to figure out how to. To ask this, but, like, what's the. What are some of the difference or similarities that you see as you being kind of like college, coming of age, getting into this movement versus to what you're seeing now as someone who is also in that same place but in 2024? What are some, like, the similarities or differences between kind of like that entry into. Into this movement, if that makes sense.
[00:26:15] Speaker C: That's a. That's a tough one because I am a veteran of the 60s, and yet the 60s have never ended, as far as I'm concerned. And a lot of what people refer to as the 60s took place in the 70s. But it was a time of intense political struggle because of the overthrow of that stage of American racist history represented by Jim Crow. And so now what we're seeing is a pushback to, you know, from what is really a white supremacist consciousness among a lot of people in this country. And that's both dangerous and evil and has to be fought every step of the way. But the fact that that was a moment in history where we were winning, participating at great risk to many people, a collective effort to overcome that stage of this country's racist history. And at the same time, we were watching the US Fighting in an unjust, illegal, imperialist war in Southeast Asia and a wave of national liberation struggles happening all over the world, which really defined the 60s and 70s and into the 80s. That provided a lot of both political consciousness and areas of struggle for people. And then that took. That kind of died down a little bit. To me, it's taking new forms today, and the stakes are just as high. There's stuff happening all over the globe that we need to be aware of and relate to. So to try to say a little more coherently, in answer to your question, the political reality of the world we're in today should give us the exact same understandings and motivation as some of us who got started some years ago had. And I think it's very important that people don't idealize a moment in this country's political history that happened 50 years ago, because we have that moment is happening again. It just has different conditions in different forms, but the goals remain the same, which is we want everybody to have access to a way of life that gives them income, the rights of everybody to live the life they want, free of all kinds of repression. And we want the environment to be a significant part of that, that people shouldn't have to live in communities that are actually poisoning them and have access to all the things that allow for a healthy lifestyle, healthy families.
[00:29:20] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. If you like this episode, make sure to rate and review the show on whatever platform you listen on. If you have thoughts about the show, we encourage you to reach out to us with your thoughts and
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[00:29:33] Speaker B: Out we act on Facebook at weact4ej that's W E a c t F o r e j on Instagram X and YouTube at react4ej that's W E A C-T number 4ej and check out our website weact.org for more information about environmental justice.
Until next time, Happy holidays.
