[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Welcome to Uptown Chats, a podcast where we share stories about environmental justice by and for everyday people. I'm your co host Lonnie.
[00:00:24] Speaker C: And I'm your other co host, Jaron.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Today we have a big topic to cover, so big that we had to split it in two different parts.
We'll be joined by not one, but two special guests to talk about what's going on at the federal level with the recent rollbacks of regulation established by the Environmental Protection Agency or the epa, including the endangerment finding.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: Our guests include Byron Ramos Gudiel, Executive Director of the center for Earth, Energy and Democracy, otherwise known as seed, and Manuel Salgado or Manny, who's our Federal research manager for WEAC's Federal Policy Office.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: I'm super excited to get into the interview, but before we jump into our conversation with Byron and Manny Jaron, can you share WEAC's mission?
[00:01:08] Speaker C: I sure can. WEAC's mission is to build healthy communities by ensuring that people of color and or low income residents participate meaningfully in the creation of sound and fair environmental health and and protection policies and practices.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Thank you. As always, we want to give some background and context before we dive into our conversation about the EPA rollbacks and endangerment finding. So first things first. What is the EPA and what are they in charge of?
[00:01:32] Speaker C: It's a great question, Lonnie. So the Environmental Protection Agency or the EPA was created in December 1970 under President Richard Nixon.
Before the EPA, environmental regulation was scattered across various federal agencies, making it inefficient to address the different challenges that we were seeing across the United States. Rivers on fire, things like that, lots of environmental challenges. And so the EPA brought these responsibilities under one roof, creating a more coordinated effort to protect the environment and public health.
And longtime listeners of the podcast may remember our previous episode where we spoke with the Administrator for EPA Region 2 at the time, Lisa Garcia, about the work the EPA has done over the last 50 plus years, which we encourage you to check out. If you haven't listened to already, there'll be a link in the show notes if you want to check that out.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: For anyone who hasn't listened to the episode, the mission of the EPA is to protect human health and environment.
That means addressing air and water quality, regulating chemical use, cleaning up contaminated land, and enforcing environmental laws passed by Congress. In short, the EPA exists to ensure the right of everyone in this country to live and work in a safe and healthy spaces and environments. The EPA's work over the last several years to focus on environmental justice has been decades in the making, coming directly from the communities who've been fighting to improve quality of lives and breathe cleaner air. And to drink cleaner water.
[00:03:02] Speaker C: Exactly. Unfortunately, under the Trump administration, the EPA has been moving forward with the most unprecedented actions in the agency's history, including rollbacks to clean air, water, and worker protections, cutting staff, defunding programs, rescinding critical grants, and ultimately prioritizing polluters. All at the expense of environmental justice communities.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a lot of harm that's been done in a. In a relatively short amount of time.
One of the major actions Trump's EPA has pursued recently is the rollback of the endangerment finding, which recognizes that greenhouse gases released when you burn fossil fuels threaten our health, our communities, and our future. This finding gives the EPA the legal duty under the Clean Air act to limit how much greenhouse gas pollution is dumped into the air, just as it does for other dangerous pollutants. Grounded in overwhelming scientific evidence, the endangerment finding has been repeatedly upheld by courts, including the U.S. supreme Court. Because of the finding, the EPA has cut pollution from power plants, cars, trucks, and oil and gas operations. This has benefited people across the country, but now that protection is under attack.
[00:04:17] Speaker C: Yeah. On his first day in office, President Trump ordered a review of the finding. And then on February 12, 2026, EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin repealed it. And if the repeal stands up to court challenges, it would gut the EPA's own authority to limit this kind of deadly pollution, which. It's why we act and other environmental justice advocates are fighting back to make sure that that doesn't happen.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: With that said, I think we can go ahead and jump into our conversation with Byron and Manny and hear more about what these rollbacks mean for everyday people, especially those in environmental justice communities, and how our organizations are fighting back.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Let's.
[00:05:04] Speaker C: All right, well, thank you both for joining us. We don't often get to do interviews where we have two guests, but today's a special topic, and there's a lot to unpack. So it's great to have both you, Byron, and Manny here to talk through what's going on at the federal level and how it's kind of trickling down and impacting people in their everyday lives. So before we actually get into some of the questions that we have for you, do you each mind just doing a really brief introduction just so folks know a little bit about who you are and your role?
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Hey, y'. All. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I want to start just by saying I'm excited that you all have invited me to have this conversation and really appreciative of react's work throughout, just throughout its history. The work that you all have done in northern Manhattan and Harlem and those areas, to me, as I was coming up, were examples of the work that was really rooted in community that could lead to systemic change.
And so really appreciate the work that you all have done over your history. And now it's kind of wild that I get to be part of some of it, a little bit. Little bits of it. And I'm really excited about that. My name is Byron Ramos.
I'm the executive director at the center for Earth, Energy and Democracy, or seed. We are a Midwest organization located in or anchored in Minneapolis.
We do work at the national level, at the regional level in the Midwest, and of course in our home, in our home state of Minnesota. I am currently in, in California, and I came up organizing around Proposition 187 in California.
And so this administration's attack on my community, immigrant communities, seems very familiar to me and my family, although the violence associated with this round really feels unique in my mind. And so I come to this work with that experience, that trauma and also lived experience of organizing immigrant rights, racial justice, environmental justice and educational justice as well throughout my history. So that is the perspective that I put on all the work that I do. And I appreciate the opportunity to lend that perspective to some of the issues that we're going to be talking about today.
[00:07:25] Speaker C: Thanks, Byron. Over to you, Manny.
Thanks, Jared.
[00:07:30] Speaker D: Yeah, my name is Manny Salgado. I'm Federal research manager for We act at our federal policy office located in D.C. and most of my work involves leading our data analysis, mapping and research at the federal level. And a lot of that involves unpacking the actions of the EPA and all the rules that we've, you know, campaigned for over the last few years. And what's going on with that now?
[00:07:57] Speaker C: With that, I said we jump right in. We've got some good questions for you.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Yeah, we appreciate you kind of coming on and talking about EPA regulations and rollbacks through the Trump administration. I know we've been seeing some, what's been called a lot of unprecedented times with a lot of these kind of like the hostilities towards kind of environment and climate justice. And we just think it's really fitting to have you guys both on and kind of talk about some of this. I want to kind of start with kind of like the overall concept and idea of EPA regulations and what that rollbacks. And can you guys explain a little bit like what some of the steps that have been taken by the Trump administration to roll back these EPA regulations.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: I'll start because I think it's an exhaustive list and probably can find a bit of time talking about this. Well, most recently you see endangerment finding.
You know, the endangerment finding has been or had been really such an important pivotal lever to use to try to curb the amount of pollution that our communities experience.
And you know, the native and finding itself is, was not new. It been, you know, maybe since the Bush administration, we had been fighting for the, what we have known in our communities to be, to be true. Right. That pollution has a disproportionate impact in low income communities, working class communities, communities of color.
And that we wanted to pair that experience, that knowledge with scientific data.
And so over time it was until the Obama administration aware that the endangerment finding actually was able to provide that scientific data to what we had been saying for decades. EJ Communities have been saying for decades. And so the rollback of the management finding is a significant one because it just takes away communities. One of the primary way in which communities can really fight back against some of the sightings, some of the build out and some of the way that these possible companies are really disregarding the community health of a lot of these communities that they are operating in.
So that's top of mind to me only because it's just has been announced something that I have been involved in over the years. But there's other ways, right? There's other ways in which rollbacks are happening, whether it's opening up public lands to oil and gas drilling, whether it's incentivizing the firing up of old coal plants that have been planned to be shut down.
And so it certainly is doing all that it can to really allow these corporations to continue to pollute our atmosphere and our communities as well. So. And it has ripple effects, right? These rollbacks aren't just about megawatts and megatons. This is a really direct impact, particularly to communities that already bear the burden of a lot of this extracted extractive nature of the multinational corporations, fossil fuel corporations.
[00:11:09] Speaker D: Yeah, I think, you know what, what Byron just talked about is spot on. And I think that the endangerment binding is kind of an underpinning of the strategy of the Trump administration, which has been pretty clear from day one. And what the, every, every action that they've taken from the initial executive orders that they signed on on the first day at office to each one of the EPA regulations that They've decided to rollback. And I think that there's a clear movement here to not prioritize the, the health and well being of communities, but rather the, the profits and interests of, you know, fossil fuel companies and these large polluters that EJ communities have to routinely deal with. Right.
And so the endangered finding, repeal is the latest movement in, in this direction.
But when you think about, you know, the executive orders that rolled back, you know, funding for EJ communities that put a prioritization on expanding fossil fuels, the actions that they've taken to limit clean energy development throughout the country insofar as like paying clean energy developers to transition to LNG instead, to the tone of a billion dollars, and then to the rollback of, you know, so many important rules that we, you know, advocated for over the previous years, like the new source NSPS for Knox, the new source pollution standards for protection standards, you know, refusing to act on ozone, which was kicked down the line from the previous administration rollbacks on, on methane rules. And there's just been a consistent move to weaponize the epa and instead of using it to protect people, which is, you know, right there in the name the Environmental Protection Agency, it's actually being used in a manner that promotes the expansion of fossil fuels and pollution within our communities.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Yeah, Manny, I agree. And I think that, that it is the goal of this administration is really clear just hearing you lay all that out, right, that the Trump administration is making the government work for polluters instead of people.
[00:13:19] Speaker C: I appreciate you kind of starting with this overview of kind of what's going on and what some of those efforts have been at the federal level to, to roll back a lot of the progress that the environmental justice movement has made over the last couple of decades to protect people and protect their health, protect the energy affordability make and help people access more clean and renewable energy. And I think that our goal for this episode is to kind of start at this high level and start to narrow in on how is something like this rollback of the endangerment finding trickling down to impact people in their everyday life. Because sometimes it's hard for people to make that connection. So taking all the things that you both shared kind of what's happening with this endangerment finding rollback in addition to the other ones, but zooming in on that specifically down just one more level, how do the endangerment finding and other EPA rollbacks impact state and local environmental protection efforts? So of course, most things kind of set at the federal level often dictate what's happening at the state and local level? So for these, these rollbacks specifically, how is that changing the landscape for, for what state and local governments are doing and, and how they're responding to this shifting landscape at the federal level?
[00:14:36] Speaker D: Well, I think what, what people need to understand is that although these rollbacks are for federal regulations, implementation for these laws happens at the local level. Right. The state and local level.
The EPA typically, you know, lets most states, you know, figure out how they're going to, you know, do a permitting process to comply with the overarching guidelines. But everything is handled at the state level.
And when these issues are rolled back, well, then states aren't empowered to, to actually regulate the pollution coming from these facilities to meet these standards. Right. And we see this in some cases, especially with, in regards to the endangerment finding, that it happens specifically where states have the ability to have been given exemptions to go above and beyond what the federal standards are. And we've seen states like California do this with regards to certain emissions. But we've also seen the Trump administration come in and say, no, you can't do that any longer.
And that removes a state's ability to actually regulate where the federal government is not right.
And, and so that, that puts us all in a box where we can only do what the federal government is doing and not above that. And there is, if that's the case, like if you're not allowed to, to, to, you know, protect your state residents in a way that the federal government won't, because the federal government is telling you can't do that, and that really, you know, hampers you. And then we don't have state regulations that are, that are able to, you know, pick up the slack here. And so it's a really direct and obvious way in which, you know, it's in where situations where previously a state like California come in and say, well, we want our cars to be cleaner. We want our constituents here to be able to have cleaner air because we feel that it's better for them, which science clearly shows. But the federal government coming in and, you know, attacking a state's right to do that. And so even though these are federal regulations, they, they have, you know, severe consequences when we have an agency and administration that, that is refusing to advocate for communities that filter down in, in a lot of different ways to state and local communities.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's right. Many. I mean, I was thinking also that, you know, the, what the engagement finding helps to create was, or helped to create was A, A, a federal floor for pollution.
And so that that's been removed. But the need for climate governance is still there. Obviously this is what Manny is speaking to, right. So the, the states still have, still should be feeling the pressure of regulating pollution in each of their states.
And so the regulatory pressure then in this case moves downward into the states and local governments producing more, what I would imagine is a more fragmented and uneven climate governance landscape. And so what that means is that there is, since there isn't that floor anymore, you will see the states and the cities, the counties that are, that have been historically over polluted and overburdened, the governing of pollution, the mitigation of its impacts, all that work is just done so very evenly. There isn't uniformity and we know that when there isn't this sort of like a legal floor, so to speak, that local governments are going to be influenced heavily by these corporations that are really, really invested in these communities financially. And so we're already seeing places where we thought that we had already settled on what the definition of clean energy, for instance, as an example, right. And now because the floor has been removed, that definition is becoming more broader and including things like nuclear and gas plants or whatnot. And so it is that floor that we thought was settled law now is providing these local governments a way to really skirt and circumvent a law that was federally mandating them to at the very least keep a universal level of governance over the local pollution. And that floor is gone.
And so I imagine that as we, as this actually gets rolled back and the implementation of the rollback actually happens, that more of that inconsistency.
And so the rollback really is not a rollback of the, just the law itself or this mechanism, but it really is a rollback of so many wins and victories that we had. The EJ movement, the environmental movement had helped create over decades of work.
So it's, it's going to have an impact in these communities that I, I just, you know, I don't even think we've begun to really see or understand it completely.
[00:19:54] Speaker D: Byron makes like a really important point, right in that the, the rollbacks of the specific like regulations and these specific executive administrative actions that are taking place for like one aspect of, of what's happening here that when you have an administration that frankly doesn't believe in science and is willing to make up its own science to back its actions is that you also get these other areas and where states and localities are affected. And what I'm talking about is there's been these giant rollbacks in scientific funding. Right. And now so whereas like a local group might partner with an academic organization to conduct research on local air quality, that then, you know, help you advocate to, to a regional authority on, on how to address that, that, that that collaboration may not happen because that research group no longer is funded by the federal government and has had to fire two other scientists.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:53] Speaker D: So we see like a diminishing in scientific capacity across the nation. We see a diminishing in the funding that like states get from the federal government directly. Right. So then if the state had workers that were funded by, you know, funds that came from the government, that's gone now as well, you know, that we from agencies being shuttered.
The federal government just made a move to shutter the, the research arm of the Forest Service, which is engaged with local communities, you know, on research that, that to address some of these issues, especially like around forest fires and emissions of that sort. Right. We've seen in New York City and in Minneapolis and all over the country what happens when forest fires go crazy and we get pollution in these areas. Right.
So there's this administration has its fingers all over the regulatory actions and changing that in ways that affect communities, but they also have access to this huge amount of funding and limiting that funding indirectly into other places that really has cascading effects.
It's really difficult to encapsulate how everything that this administration does is in service of fossil fuels and that has so many different manifestations and how it's going to affect communities over the coming years. We're only now just starting to see that take shape.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I really appreciate that framing of kind of like what the EPA does is it creates that floor, right? Here's scientific proof of this is the floor. But you know, states can go above and beyond to kind of protect their, you know, their citizens, their constituents and residents in different communities based on their unique needs. I have a question for both of you. As you see these kind of rollbacks start to be implemented and take kind of a two part question because you are starting to talk about some of the consequences of these rollbacks. But I wanted to ask, do you see this impacting more existing state and local laws that have gone above and beyond, or is it more so future laws? Or is it a combination of both? And the second part of that, and I'll let you guys kind of respond, is what does that mean for advocates for us who are doing this work, who are wanting to make more progressive climate and environmental laws?
[00:23:06] Speaker D: I'll Start off Byron, then I'll add it to you. I think that, you know, I touched on this a little bit when, and you know that resources needed for local advocates are really just disappearing left and right because of the actions of this administration.
And I think that this really hurts communities in a variety of different ways. Right. And there are a lot of ways in which communities have been striving for, you know, local successes that really have measurable effects on air quality, for one. And in New York City, there's an excellent example of a community doing that right with congestion pricing, a program that was a lot of people were really skeptical about. There was a lot of pushback. It was really hard to get enacted. And then the moment it does, you see measurable impacts and we act itself. Valentino has done great work monitoring that and has shown demonstrable changes to air quality in northern Manhattan based on congestion pricing. Right. And so it's something that we see that's, that's changed. And yet we've seen a lot throughout the year that Trump has attacked congestion pricing and that's threatened New York's ability to actually implement it and, and to carry through with that. And so far, you know, that hasn't happened. And I think that we act would definitely fight that in any situation. But that's just like an example of how community advocates teamed up with their local governments to figure out a solution that is having beneficial changes that we see under attack, you know, from, from the federal government.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I think just broadly the, this administration's like approach to the states that have been leading on climate has been pretty incredible. I mean, it's hard to believe that we've only, this administration has only been in office for a little bit over a year, but you know, just over that year, over that year, the work to not just roll back federal policy on climate, but also to go after states who have gone through their own process of identifying solutions for the rising climate and the impacts of that.
The administration put out protecting America's energy from state overreach. And the order directs the Attorney General to sue states and local governments to block their climate and clean energy policies.
I mean, you know, it's just, it's just pretty incredible. That's actually the, the approach of this administration to go after individual states for solutions that they have come up with to, to, to, to answer their own states and communities needs.
You know, in California, for instance, you know, we got hit really hard with the fact that with the rollback of clean energy emissions programs at the federal level, try to figure out how actually to do that at the state level.
But essentially Congress put a block to California's efforts to pay that gasoline powered vehicles. And that was the entire state, its economy.
You know, we were all preparing ourselves for that, you know, and that got put on, on, on, on hold.
And of course the, the, the, the big beautiful build as it was called last year, eliminated millions of dollars in clean energy tax credits.
So it just the sense of this incentivize that that incentive for clean energy is completely just gone now.
And the administration is currently blocking wind and solar projects all over the country.
So it is, it is just, it isn't just at the federal level.
They're also challenging each state's or the state's ability to be responsive to its communities.
And that is putting just a huge burden on advocates in these states, you know, the country. Just these sort of unprecedented rollbacks come fast. And it's hard even for those of us who are in this work. It is hard to keep up.
And it's hard to like keep up in a way that allows us to notify communities, to really educate communities on the rollbacks and the impacts and what it means.
And in a lot of ways we have to do more with less. Right.
Federal government protections that support our work are being actively dismantled. So these things that we, these tools that we have that we didn't necessarily have to fight for, that we had to fight for initially and then roll that into our workflow to try to create better realities for ourselves and for our communities, all those levers are gone. Most of those levers are gone. And so organizations are now having to face like just these climbs that aren't resourced well.
And so we're just having to do a lot more, having to think about strategies to win back things that, you know, organizations again like we act like just organizations have been around for a long, long time here in California. We have apen. We have communities for a better environment who've like helped to, to really create a regulatory framework for the state. And all of those frameworks are either gone or under attack right now by the administration. And so organizations are going to have to, you know, do the work of building of course and then like this, this immediate need that we are feeling because of the threats that we are feeling to really be responsive to the moment, to the rollbacks that are happening in our communities.
So it is, it's quite the big hill to climb right now for advocates and communities.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Thanks for listening. Make sure to tune in our next episode coming out on May 11th where we will pick up our conversation to hear more about what these rollbacks mean, mean for everyday people, especially those in environmental justice communities and how our organizations are fighting back.
[00:29:48] Speaker C: I also want to remind folks about our Uptown Chats hotline where listeners can call in with questions they have about climate and environmental justice. So if you got a question call 877-Uptown 6. That's 877-878-6966.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: If you like this episode, make sure to rate and review the show on whatever platform you listen on. If you have thoughts about the show or suggestions on topics you want to discuss, we encourage you to reach out to
[email protected] and check out we act
[00:30:18] Speaker C: on Facebook at react4ej that's W E a c t F o R e J on Instagram, Blue sky and YouTube Act4ej that's W E A C T number 4ej and check out our website website we act.org for more information about environmental justice.
Till next time.
